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[Another blogger] David Robinson reigns supreme...again

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by steddinotayto, Sep 18, 2008.

  1. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Member

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    So there's another blogger/statistician that crunched the numbers and came up with what David Berri previously concluded...that stat for stat, Robinson is the best century in the past 25 years.

    LINK

    Of course, here's some data and questions I like to raise:

    1. I would like to know if James' win shares account for games that a player missed during the season. For example, Olajuwon missed 10 games in the 1994-1995 season and the Rockets went on to win 47 games. Now in those 10 games missed, how many were won without Olajuwon? How many were losses? I'm sure James is a lot smarter than I and would have accounted that but I can't help but to wonder. Main reason? Because win shares are supposed to measure, in layman's terms, how valuable a player is to the team's success. What if, lets say, the rockets split the 10 games during Dream's absence. Shouldn't/wouldn't the win shares for Olajuwon depend on a 42-30 record instead of the full 47-35. This might not look like it'll matter but what if they went 2-8 or 3-7 without Dream? Wouldn't that pull Dream's win shares down...even if he wasn't there?

    2. The first point brings up another point: Robinson's durability. In Robinson's career, the only time he missed significant time (10 or more games) was during that season they tanked to get Duncan. Other than that season, Robinson has been pretty durable...much more durable than any other center during the 90s. I definitely give Robinson credit for being able to play those many games but isn't this another factor that kind of helps him and hurts other centers (Shaq, Dream, etc) that has missed extensive time during their respective careers? "Well, it's not Robinson's fault he was the most durable" It isn't but this shouldn't also go against O'Neal and Olajuwon either.

    3. Basketball-reference.com has a stat that they record called usage %. This is, in their words, is "an estimate of the percentage of team plays used while the player is on the court." Between the three, O'Neal is head and shoulders above the rest at about 30.1 for his career, Dream is 2nd and Robinson 3rd. In all honesty this should be something that should be factored in if everything else is accounted for especially if you're the best player on your respective teams.

    4. One thing that rarely gets compared statistically is defense. There's defensive win shares and Olajuwon is not only first all time in this category but has led the league in this stat 5 separate years. Robinson is not that far behind with leading the league 4 times.

    The one thing that I like about this article moreso than Berri's article is Pelton leaves room for argument such as mentioning playoff performances as another way to measure and compare O'Neal, Olajuwon and Robinson. Berri merely brings it up in a couple of sentences. One stat that doesn't show up is the playoffs points per game compared to the regular season. Example:

    Robinson
    Regular Season
    93-94 29.8 ppg
    94-95 27.6 ppg
    Playoffs
    93-94 20.0 ppg
    94-95 25.3 ppg



    Olajuwon
    Regular Season
    93-94 27.3 ppg
    94-95 27.8 ppg
    Playoffs
    93-94 28.9 ppg
    94-95 33.0 ppg

    There are a few more instances where Dream actually increased his scoring average during the playoffs. Can the same said about Robinson? Looking through, the only increases are minimal at best during his first couple of seasons. So, despite having great PER seasons and some of the most efficient stats during his career, how can Robinson be considered the greatest center in the past 25 years when those stats produced exactly zero titles (I'm not going to include the one where he played second banana to Duncan)? Olajuwon's and O'Neal's stats are very comparable to Robinson's but they led their respective teams to titles...more than once even.
     
  2. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    I'm gonna say stats do matter to a point, but this is insanity.

    David was a great center, but I can think of 3 who were better in the same period of time...Shaq, Olajuwon, and Ewing.

    I'll even say centers, like Daugherty, Mutombo, and Mourning were way more effective in the playoffs.

    David Robinson is in the same category with players, like Karl Malone and few others. They're great players, but they're not the best. Karl Malone is another great example. He put up great numbers and had some big scoring averages in some seasons...but he wasn't nearly as effective in playoffs. He wasn't a winner, like Duncan and McHale.

    Same principle applies with the Admiral, he did not raise his game in the playoffs, like the other great centers, like Dream and Shaq did.

    I never saw a series where David Robinson had 38 and 15 in the Finals or had any big games in the last game of seven game series.
     
  3. Yak

    Yak Member

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    I couldn't agree more.

    But don't say that to Spurs' fans', because the ONLY reason Hakeem did better in the playoffs was, according to them, because he was surrounded by great 3-point shooters.
     
  4. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    David Robinson was a great center who's career was unfairly tarnished by the 1995 playoff demolition by Hakeem. He is clearly below Shaq and Hakeem and it's pretty stupid (IMO) to argue otherwise. He was a better player than Ewing in almost every phase of the game except jumpshooting.
     
  5. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    My take:

    1. Ewing is clearly the worst among these four centers. Most people would agree without looking at that analysis.

    2. It is not fair to compare O'Neal with the others because his career did not coincide with them. When O'Neal was at his peak, all the others had already declined to pretty much nothing. In other words, O'Neal had inferior competition by far.

    3. While I still believe Hakeem is the better center despite the analysis, I do think Robinson is very underrated by Rockets fans, mostly because of their hatred of the Spurs and the "schooling" by Hakeem in the 05 playoffs.
     
  6. Apollo Creed

    Apollo Creed Contributing Member

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    Weak. How many titles did Robinson win without Duncan carrying him?
     
  7. AGBee

    AGBee Member

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    Robinson hung his sneakers up before his production dropped off too much like Hakeem and Ewing's did.
     
  8. DrNuegebauer

    DrNuegebauer Member

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    From memory we only won 1 game in that stretch?

    Someone could look that up.

    But I remember thinking that, without doubt, Hakeem was MVP for that simple reason!

    At least we'll always have the playoff series :D
     
  9. GermanRoxFan

    GermanRoxFan Member

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    3-7

    :)
     
  10. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    Question to original blogger....

    Is David Robinson even the best big man on his own team over the last 25 years?


    He has gaudy numbers and was very athletic, but I don't think he is nearly as good as Tim Duncan. You replace Tim with David on the last 5 Spurs seasons, I guarantee you that the Spurs don't win one single championship. Duncan seems to be tougher player, more focused, more skilled offensively, and get this more....CLUTCH. Look at how many game winning plays in the playoffs Duncan has made in comparasion to Robinson. Duncan was the main reason, the Spurs finally won a championship and eventually dethroned the Lakers and was able to beat more talented teams, like the Suns and Mavs.



    I'm not bashing David Robinson, he was great player and guy...but he wasn't as great advertised. He was like Dwight Howard with better offense. Still, he wasn't in the class with Hakeem and even a young Shaq. In fact, I also think the reason his game started to drop off alot after 96 was because the main aspect of his game was athleticism. He couldn't take over, like he did when he was younger. I can see Tim Duncan still as impact player and even top 5 PF well until he is past 35, because his game is based on fundamentals and BB IQ....and he has great passion to win.
     
  11. Jonhty

    Jonhty Member

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    dream or no dream, david robinson was great.
     
  12. NADman

    NADman Member

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    Shaq was able to school and bully David Robinson left and right. But Hakeem always schooled Shaq.

    Shaq is scared of the great Hakeem Olajuwon. Enough said.
     
  13. aussie rocket

    aussie rocket Member

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    I would rank the big 4 from that era thusly

    1. Dream
    2. Shaq
    3. Admiral
    4. Ewing


    Ewing's game, while generally effective, was certainly the ugliest to watch.

    DRob's offensive game wasn't that pretty either.

    I think aesthetically, as well as effectively, its Dream.
     
  14. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Member

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    No one said he wasn't great. But to say he was the best center the the past 25 years is kind of stretching it especially since there are two other centers that have comparable numbers who actually led their respective teams to titles.
     
  15. lalala902102001

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  16. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    Complete nonsense. Shaq wasn't "scared" of Hakeem at all. Trying watching the videos of the 1995 NBA Finals to see how scared he was. Shaq liked Hakeem and spoke well of him, but there was zero intimidation. From his first day in the NBA, nobody intimidated Shaq.

    If you meant to be sarcastic, my apologies.
     
  17. v3.0

    v3.0 Member

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    Hakeem Olajuwon > David Robinson

    /thread
     
  18. IROC it

    IROC it Member

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    Yep. Three minutes and ten seconds worth watching.

    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hW4uXlRGAF0&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hW4uXlRGAF0&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
     
  19. Dkny_112

    Dkny_112 Member

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    I never get sick of watching that video. The 31st time is just as good as the first. :)
     
  20. Dave_78

    Dave_78 Member

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    David Robinson was an amazing player and widely regarded as the best Center in the league during the early 90s until Hakeem took the Rockets to two Championships. Check the stats. He was certainly an elite player in the league for quite some time. You want defense? Look at his shot blocking numbers. He is a top 10 Center of all time. He was not better than Hakeem but he is a lot closer that some people (who judge him based on youtube clips of Hakeem killing him in one series) realize.

    He definitely deserves more respect than to be compared to Brad Daugherty or Dwight Howard.
     

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