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And Christ drove the moneylenders from the Temple...

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Northside Storm, Aug 6, 2010.

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  1. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Member

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    ...only to see a Church dedicated to His mission become moneylenders themselves. Corrupt moneylenders at that.

    Happened a while ago, but I haven't seen any topics pop up.

    The Vatican bank deals in insurance, money-lending and all that financial goody-goody. I just cannot believe the nerve of an organization that openly flaunts disregard for its' key principles several times-and I cannot believe that there are still people out there who believe the Church holds the kind of moral legitimacy it tries so desperately to maintain.
     
    #1 Northside Storm, Aug 6, 2010
  2. Pizza_Da_Hut

    Pizza_Da_Hut I put on pants for this?

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    Religion is as much about salvation as it is business. It's a necessary evil. Without the money, the church couldn't do the good it does, but, with money comes temptation and corruptibility. It happens...
     
    #2 Pizza_Da_Hut, Aug 6, 2010
  3. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Member

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    Nobody's denying that you need money to do good, but the Church gets enough from collections based on the notion that the Church is doing Christ's work with the money-which it clearly is not in this case.

    Last I checked too, the Church was a not-for-profit. Though, I guess you might as well just get the farce over with and name it a corporation that sells souls at a good rate. We had the indulgences, now we have the Church handling other people's dirty money, just abhorrent, if I were to use my "papal, better-then-thou" voice.
     
    #3 Northside Storm, Aug 6, 2010
  4. da_juice

    da_juice Member

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    Jesus would be furious.
     
    #4 da_juice, Aug 6, 2010
  5. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    agree with op...this is crappy
     
    #5 MadMax, Aug 6, 2010
  6. basso

    basso Member
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    <object width="853" height="505"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/5g77AcTbjFo&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5g77AcTbjFo&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="853" height="505"></embed></object>
     
    #6 basso, Aug 6, 2010
  7. Rashmon

    Rashmon Member

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    I'm a legitimate businessman.
    [​IMG]
     
    #7 Rashmon, Aug 6, 2010
    1 person likes this.
  8. bloop

    bloop Member

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    u mad?

    you clearly feel strongly about this matter just curious though logically how you think this means the Catholic Church doesn't do Christ's work or why you think that the Church's moral authority is derived from following secular banking regulations?

    it sounds like someone in charge of a portion of the Church's money has been up to shenanigans, not sure how it means the Church which is founded on religious doctrine has no legitimacy and all that other crap.

    are you sure you're not projecting your own set of values on the Church rather than making a coherent argument?
     
    #8 bloop, Aug 6, 2010
  9. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    Accused?

    It seems to me you are eager to believe the worst about the Catholic Church, so you'll jump on anything that'll paint them in a negative light. Now, maybe they have been up to no good. But, all you've shown us here is an accusation by a magazine and no compelling reason to believe it's true.
     
    #9 JuanValdez, Aug 6, 2010
  10. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Member

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    Well, my main point was that the very fact the Vatican has a bank in the first place is laughably ironic, never mind one that is tainted with allegations of corruption.

    But, to put aside doubts of the utter wickedness of the matter at hand, I suppose we will have to wait until someone delivers the truth at hand. The very fact that no mention of clearance or guilt has been made leads one to suspect that the Church could very well be covering up, at least based on the history of recent scandals (can we really give this organization the benefit of the doubt anymore given what we know of the shameful way the Church will overstep its bounds to protect itself?)

    But as they say-the truth will set you free.

    The very fact the Church makes money by lending though, I wonder if that does not incense just on its own?
     
    #10 Northside Storm, Aug 7, 2010
  11. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Member

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    Christ drove the moneylenders out of the temple. Is that not religious doctrine?

    The Church took the temple and turned it to the moneylenders. Finance mixed with piety, extreme deviance from one of the positions we actually know for certain Jesus would have held (rather then the guesstimates that see Him used to justify all kinds of funny stuff)

    How is the existence of the Vatican Bank justifiable on any level for the Church?

    "Well, times have changed."

    -But apparently not so when it comes to homosexuality being an abomination or countless other "timeless truths".

    This isn't even to begin with the funny things the bank has done. This isn't the first time-just google Vatican Bank scandal and you'll get a whole list of dirty deeds.

    The Vatican Bank has been sued for laundering money from Holocaust victims
    (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alperin_v._Vatican_Bank) and a quick history lesson from the 1980s (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,951806,00.html).

    Should we really give this organization the benefit of the doubt once again?
     
    #11 Northside Storm, Aug 7, 2010
  12. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    It's not a necessary evil at all.

    If the price to pay is temptation and corruptibility within THE church, then it is completely unnecessary.

    What is the difference between me being greedy and the church being greedy? If I get more money, I will give out more charity. Should I then sacrifice my principles to get more money?

    With all due respect, I hate it when religious people don't have jobs and we see a snowball effect on the religous establishment receiving money. Preaching for money. Paying the people in the mosque/church. It's ridiculous.

    Jesus PBUH had a job and Muhammad PBUH had a job. If your survival depends on people's charity money, you are stepping on a dangerous line where you have the power to guilt people into paying you more. That's not a good place to be. Wouldnt it make so much sense for them to get a job and free themselves from needing someone else to feed them?

    I think that's the core issue here. I have no doubt similar things happen all the time on a smaller scale. Like when the Imam of a mosque asked my friend's uncle for a family car because he needs it and he has many children, so they got together and bought him a 4x4 land cruiser. The following week, it turns out the Imam sold the land cruiser and bought a toyota corolla. No one asked why or where the money went. But if the difference went to charity, don't you think my friend's uncle could have given that amounty to charity HIMSELF?

    How about they sell off some of those lavish churches/mosques, and feed 1 million more hungry people.
     
    #12 Mathloom, Aug 8, 2010
  13. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    I think you're taking that passage too simplistically. I don't think it's appropriate to read that passage as a condemnation of banking, generally, as sinful. The moneylenders in the Temple at the time had practices we'd call predatory -- they were unjust bankers. I don't think you should generalize that to the Church other than to say they shouldn't engage in immoral banking practices (which is what they are accused of, and have possibly committed), but we should know that from other Christian principles anyway.
     
    #13 JuanValdez, Aug 8, 2010
  14. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Member

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    Strike possibly. We know the Vatican Bank has committed immoral banking acts.

    (Refer to the first Vatican Bank Scandal in the 1980s)

    and for added flavor...

    Yet another strike on the Church's record?

    When do we say enough is enough?

    And how can the church justify denying condoms and pursuing "abstinence and such" based on parcels of nothing when something as direct as this can be pushed aside?

    Anyways, interpret the story how you will. I interpret it as Jesus telling us he wants no part of faith and business mixing together->no "house of faith" will become a "house of thieves" under his watch.

    Admittedly, I believe at least some of modern banking to be thieving, which I suppose is not a view many hold. However, the Church's failings in this direction should give all pause and concern.
     
    #14 Northside Storm, Aug 8, 2010
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