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... and Arafat declares war.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by treeman, Jan 23, 2002.

  1. treeman

    treeman Member

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    Arafat Burns Last Bridges to Oslo,
    Declares War

    23 January: DEBKAfile’s military sources report that Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat has ordered his 20,000-man police force to take to the war field – a drastic step that moves his confrontation with Israel into the realm of full-scale belligerence. Militarizing his police force is more than just another blatant violation of the 1993 Oslo Peace Accords, which established the Palestinian Authority and allowed it to establish a police force confined to civilian duties; it is their death blow.

    Arafat fully comprehends the international, diplomatic and legal consequences of his action. Wednesday, the Palestinian Authority’s secretary, Abdul Rahman, clearly declared all Palestinian accords with Israel null and void.
    Throughout his 15-month Intifada, Arafat held back from burning his last bridges to Oslo. By and large, he kept the Palestinian Authority’s police force clear of Palestinian terrorist operations against Israel, aside from logistics support for terror squads.

    His final leap into full-scale belligerence was not revealed in the reports of IDF preparations for extremely grave contingencies that have been issuing in the last 24 hours from high-ranking Israeli military officers. But, DEBKAfile’s military sources reveal, those officers were referring more to the new Palestinian police deployment than to the next threatened terror wave, for which the highest security alert is in force in all parts of Israel.

    However, on Monday January 21, a top Palestinian police officer, Gen. Abdel-Razek al-Majaydeh, announced over Iranian television that “Palestinian forces” would henceforth be taking full and active part in the war against Israel.

    This announcement brought Miguel Moratinos, the European Union’s special Middle East envoy, rushing over to Ramallah, to demand an explanation from Arafat of the use to which European funds were being put. Those funds are extended to support a civilian police force – nothing more. He reminded the Palestinian leader that, when he declared his confrontation with Israel in September 2000, Europe froze the subsidy, pending receipt of Arafat’s guarantee that no Palestinian policemen would take part in hostilities against Israel. Payments were then renewed.

    Foreseeing a second halt in the wake of his escalation, Arafat has been sending his emissaries round the Arab oil-producing states in the last two weeks, to solicit replacement funds. Saudi Arabia may be contemplating acceding to Arafat’s demands and taking the radical step of shouldering the cost of a military force waging war on Israel. Riyadh will be influenced in its decision by its growing rift with Washington.

    DEBKAfile’s military experts note that the Palestinian police force is not an irregular militia like the Tanzim or a terrorist gang like the Aqsa Brigades, but an organized regular corps with a command hierarchy, an operations arm, intelligence, an advanced communications network and considerable mobility. It is equipped with hundreds of vehicles, some armored, donated mainly by the United States, the UK, Germany, France and Italy, as well as being amply armed with automatic weapons, including heavy machine guns.

    To enhance the force’s combat capabilities, DEBKAfile’s military sources have no doubt that Arafat will break open the heavy weapons caches he has hidden around the Gaza Strip and West Bank.

    For the IDF, this means that, in addition to chasing and pre-empting terrorist squads, it must prepare to face medium-scale battles against a regular military force. Israelis have become inured to hearing about Israeli air force bombardments of empty Palestinian police centers and tank assaults to demolish Palestinian police facilities. Now they will start hearing about aerial bombings of Palestinian police convoys on their way to attack Israeli targets and Israeli tanks flattening Palestinian police positions.


    http://www.debka.com/
     
  2. Nomar

    Nomar Member

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    What is your deal with the Arab paranoia/hatred. Its like every week you have some doom statement to make regarding the political situation in the Middle East. Did you fight in Desert Storm or something?
     
  3. HOOP-T

    HOOP-T Member

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    Nomar,
    He just posted an article...none of the comments are even his. And if Arafat has declared war, I'd say it's a pretty good, relevant article to post.
     
  4. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    If this is true, Arafat has just signed his own execution order, and we can all kiss another terrorist goodbye.
     
  5. haven

    haven Member

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    I don't actually believe what the following article has to say... but nor do I accept the implications of the one Treeman posted. The truth doesn't come from one side... I'm posting this not in advocacy, but rather in the interest of showing the other "extremist" side.

     
  6. treeman

    treeman Member

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    Nomar:

    I happen to find foreign affairs interesting, and I also happen to think that they truly do affect our lives. 9/11 should have pointed that out. I also happen to think that the ME is a very critical area where our foreign affairs are concerned. 9/11 should also have pointed that out.

    If you don't like it/don't agree, then don't bother clicking on the thread to read it. No one forced you to read it... My feelings won't be hurt. :p

    haven:

    I would not be surprised at all to learn that the Israelis have had a plan in the works for years to topple Arafat and destroy the PNA. I think they'd be negligent if they didn't work out such a plan.

    But the implication in the article you posted that it is not an act of retaliation - that it is somehow an unprovoked aggression against the Palestinians - is just conspiracy-theory hogwash. There is quite a bit of evidence supporting the idea that Arafat is still involved in terrorism; if he wasn't then he would have taken care of Hamas years ago (it is only relatively recently that he has lost control over the occupied territories). There's also quite a bit of evidence that his PNA, Fatah, Hamas, Hizbollah, and Iran and Syria (and new evidence for Iraq) are all coordinating. Ther Karine-A shipment is solid proof of that. In addition, the last two attacks (the bat mitzvah attack and the suicide gunner yesterday) were carried out by Al Aqsa operatives working for Fatah - his personal gang. He was certainly involved with those, even if his subordinates (and not he himself) ordered the attacks.

    He has been a terrorist for at least 30+ years; the Israelis know this. Can you really blame them for not expecting him to change his stripes? So, surprise, surprise: the Israelis had a contingency plan to take him out. So what? I don't blame them.
     
  7. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    :eek: ISRAEL & INDIA vs. PALESTINE & PAKASTAN???
    That'd make a huge war!!!
     
  8. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    This is what I feared that we would degrade into a full scale World War.

    I think this is what Osama wants, and he actually thinks the Arabs can win....newsflash....they Can't.

    They have oil, but are weak militarily.

    This could escalate quickly into a Holy War....man...this SUCKS !!

    DaDakota
     
  9. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    :rolleyes: If Sauds quit selling oil cheap the states and UK will get ****ed over big time
     
  10. Nomar

    Nomar Member

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    Sorry if I sounded offensive treeman. I was just curious as to your extreme bias. Your interest in foreign affairs seems focused on the militant activities which take place in the Middle East region. Just wondering...

    Personally, I think that if they stop selling us oil cheap, we go in and take it by force. Its not that big of a problem in wartime.
     
  11. Surfguy

    Surfguy Member

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    Maybe if they make Arafat and Sharon kiss.....it will help. If not, then they should drown them both in the blood of their citizens.

    They are the worst leaders the world has ever seen.
     
  12. treeman

    treeman Member

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    Nomar:

    Well, sorry about being snappy, then...

    I've been studying ME terrorism/warfare/politics for a few years now, so I guess I am a little biased. I'd challenge anyone to seriously study the situation and try to walk away from it without a bit of a bias against Islamic terrorists. I can discuss other areas of foreign affairs too... this is just my favorite one. ;)

    And if the Saudis stop selling us oil, we will just go liberate Iraq and buy theirs. If the Saudis want to shoot themselves in the foot, that's fine with me.

    Surfguy:

    I think they probably are the worst pair of leaders the world has ever seen - at least in that area (they're not quite on a par with Hitler and Stalin yet, IMO).
     
  13. francis 4 prez

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    Gee, isn't this great. Now Israel and the Palestinians are gonna go at it. Saudi Arabia is joining in and I'm sure Iraq or someone else will join the show. I guess it's pretty much the mid east time bomb we've been expecting to go off for years.
     
  14. Lynus302

    Lynus302 Member

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    I'll be there whenever whatever goes down.

    Go Army.
     
  15. treeman

    treeman Member

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    Lynus - Let the IDF take care of this one. Save your energy for Iraq. ;)
     
  16. Lynus302

    Lynus302 Member

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    Of course! As long as I get mine before its over....
     
    #16 Lynus302, Jan 24, 2002
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2002
  17. glynch

    glynch Member

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    The former head of the Israeli internal defense calls for urgent withdrawal from occupied lands as Sharon's repression is creating more terrorists. from nimn.org

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    This interview with Ami Ayalon, the former head if Israeli's Shin Bet, appeared in Le Monde in December 22, 2001, and wsa translated from the original French. It also appears on the very important website, Mid-East Realities (MER)

    Small, lean, dressed in jeans and an open shirt, Ayalon speaks calmly, but forcefully. Ami Ayalon headed the Insraeli Shin Bet (internal security) from 1996 to 2000 during the Prime Ministerships of Bibi Netanayahu and Ehud Barak]

    Ami Ayalon: Israeli society, top to bottom, is sinking into confusion. There are no reference points. People mask this reality with swaggering slogans: "We will vanquish terrorism!". At a colloquium, the army chief of staff declares: "We are winning"; he evokes the "superiority of Tsahal"—the Israeli army—and his "feeling that the nation is finding its strength."

    Then he adds "there are today more Palestinian terrorists than a year ago" and says there will be even more tomorrow! If we are winning, how come terrorists are multiplying?

    In Israel, no one is in touch with reality. This is a consequence of a misperception of the peace process. "We have been generous and they refused!" is ridiculous, and everything that follows from this misperception is skewed. Moreover, our obsession with the Palestinians makes us forget to ask questions about ourselves. What do we want to be? Where are we going? No leader addresses these questions. Thus the confusion and general anxiety.

    AC: The majority of leaders though are convinced that time works in favor of Israel.

    AA: Since September 11, our leaders have been euphoric. With no more international pressures on Israel, they think, the way is open. This obscures the consequences of our holding onto the Palestinian Territories.

    This is not only a moral matter. Our founders saw a state that provided a homeland for Jews and was a democracy. From both points of view, time plays against us! Demographically, it works in favor of the Palestinians. And politically in favor of Hamas and the settlers. But to fight against Hamas, we must evacuate the settlers, whose proximity to the Palestinians reinforces hatred.

    Among the Palestinians, the weight of the Islamists is increasing, and also that of intellectuals who used to favor a two-state solution, but who now say: "Since the Israelis will never evacuate the settlements, well, then, there will be a binational state."

    This is something I absolutely oppose. It would not be a Jewish state any more. And if it remained a Jewish state while dominating the Arab population, it would not be a democracy.

    AC: Do you exclude the possibility of an Israeli victory, despite the power differential?

    AA: We have had our "victory"! In 1967, we occupied all the Palestinian lands. Once "terrorism is vanquished," what shall we do? This is absurd. The Palestinians want self-rule. Whoever wants to "vanquish" them, then offer them bread and circuses, understands nothing. The Israeli army is stronger than ever, our secret services are excellent; then why is the problem not resolved? Reoccupying the Palestinian Authority lands, and killing Arafat, what would that change? Those who want victory want an unending war.

    AC: Yet, since September 11, many think that Israel can change the regional situation in its favor.

    AA: An illusion! September 11 has changed many paradigms in the U.S., but nothing basic in the Middle East. Whatever Arafat's errors, the Palestinian people will continue to exist. As long as the Palestinian question is not resolved, the region will not know stability. Only a Palestinian state will preserve the Jewish and democratic character of Israel.

    We do need international political and financial help to resolve that problem and that of the refugees, because as long as the refugee problem persists, even if a Palestinian state exists, it will poison our relationship.

    AC: But the Israelis are traumatized by the Palestinian demand for the return of refugees.

    AA: Let us stop worrying about what our adversaries say and ask what we, ourselves, want. We do not want the return of the refugees. But we can refuse only if Israel acknowledges unambiguously its role in the suffering of the Palestinians and its obligation to help solve the problem. Israel must accept the principle of the right of return and the PLO must commit itself to not question the Jewish identity of our state.

    AC: What do you think of the view put forth by the head of Mossad of Israel in the front line of the "third world war" against terrorism?

    AA: Anyone who equals Arafat with Bin Laden understand neither Arafat nor Bin Laden. The latter is the guru of a very harmful sect, but one that is very marginal to Islam; it aims to bring chaos and cares nothing about the international community. But Arafat dreams of being accepted by the international community—since 1993, he has constantly made reference to it, demanding the application of the UN resolutions, while we, Israelis, refuse! If Bin Laden is killed, his sect may disappear with him. If we kill Arafat, the Palestinian people will continue to want its independence.

    AC: Do you fear that the Palestinian Territories may become a quagmire?

    AA: We say the Palestinians behave like "madmen," but it is not madness but a bottomless despair. As long as there was a peace process—the prospect of an end to the occupation—Arafat could maneuver, incite or repress violence to better negotiate. When there is no more peace process, the more terrorists one kills the more strength their camp gains.

    Yasser Arafat neither prepared nor triggered the Intifada. The explosion was spontaneous, against Israel, as all hope for the end of occupation disappeared, and against the Palestinian authority, its corruption, its impotence. Arafat could not repress it. The peace process is what allowed Arafat to be seen as the head of a national liberation movement rather than a collaborator of Israel. Without it, he can fight neither against the Islamists nor against his own base. The Palestinians would end up hanging him in the public square.

    AC: From Oslo to Camp David, did Israel miss a rare opportunity for peace?

    AA: Yes. It is not all the Israelis' fault. The Palestinians, the international community, bear some responsibility, but we missed an extraordinary opportunity: the international situation was incredibly favorable after the fall of communism, the Gulf war, the emergence of globalization, all these phenomena led Israel to reexamine its own assumptions. Now, we are regressing.

    AC: Do you favor a "unilateral separation" from the Palestinians?

    AA: I do not like the word separation, it reminds me of South Africa. I favor unconditional withdrawal from the Territories—preferably in the context of an agreement, but not necessarily: what needs to be done, urgently, is to withdraw from the Territories. And a true withdrawal, which gives the Palestinians territorial continuity in a Transjordan linked to Gaza, open to Egypt and Jordan. If they proclaim their own state, Israel should be the first to recognize it and to propose state to state negotiations, without conditions, on the basis of the Clinton proposals, to resolve all pending problems.



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  18. Mango

    Mango Member

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    Hamas, Hezbollah, PFLP et al are willing to commit also?



    Mango
     
  19. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Mango, the point of the article was that Israel if it wants to remain a democratic and humane nation and to decrease rather than increase terrorism , rather than merely having only the futile satisfaction of tough guy talk, should withdraw from the occupied territorities, now and unilaterally without worrying about Hamas etc.
     
  20. treeman

    treeman Member

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    They've already tried that, glynch. Hamas, PFLP, Islamic Jihad, etc. kept sending suicide bombers. Didn't work too well, did it?

    They only recently reoccupied the territories. Even calling them "occupied territories" during the Oslo period has been a bit misleading. The PNA has been in control during that period; the Israelis just controled movement to and from the Palestinian areas...

    But they're "occupied territories" again. Gee, you don't think that might have anything to do with the suicide attacks, do you?

    I am just mystified as to why you don't think that Israel has a right to defend itself (or the US, for that matter).
     

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