I thought this was a pretty good assessment of all the shooting gaurds in the league, so i thought i would share.... Among shooting guards, Bryant is best Mike Kahn Special to FOXSports.com They remain the glamour guys of the NBA. They can shoot from anywhere on the floor, take it to the rack, and generally spend a good portion of the game standing on the foul line if anyone touches their glossy veneers. We're talking about the shooting guards, of course, and they tend to be the most elite of the respected players in the league. It's tough to refute when you're considering scoring champion Kobe Bryant, 2006 Finals MVP Dwyane Wade, Tracy McGrady et al. Throw in Vince Carter, Ray Allen, Manu Ginobili and a handful of others, and really, it's not that difficult to be happy with any one of these guys as your primary scorer. And while they are all eminently capable of dominating a game on their own, there is some separation here, if only because of all-around ability. None of the above really has the size and skill set of Bryant. He is gifted so far beyond the norm that he really can dominate any of these other players on the list more often than not because of his size, strength and defensive proclivity. So clearly he is No. 1 and Wade — when healthy — is as close as it gets. Allen is the nonpareil shooter, McGrady was dominant most of last season (though he is still an injury waiting to happen), and Carter is always one shot away from exploding into his scoring netherworld. But the most unique of the group has to be Ginobili — the left-handed Argentinean, who has won more championships in the NBA and internationally than the rest of the group combined. So take your pick if you like — everyone is entitled to their personal opinion. Then again, sometimes, there is no accounting for taste as we examine how the shooting guards look entering the 2007-08 season — potential super-rook Kevin Durant excepted. 1. Kobe Bryant, Los Angeles Lakers Vitals: 29, 6-6, 220, 31.6 pts., 5.7 reb., 5.4 ass., 1.4 stl., .463 FG, .868 FT There is no better pure basketball player in the NBA than Bryant. He has all the tools on both ends of the floor, and his ability to make other players better and focus on being a team player was never more apparent than this past summer as the U.S. national team ran roughshod over the competition in the FIBA Americas Tournament. But he's also extremely impatient and has been intolerant of what is happening in the Lakers organization since Shaquille O'Neal was traded. His own trade demands have quieted for now and it will be interesting to see how the defending scoring champion will do with his young group. Remember, they were very good before injuries struck too hard last season. His emotional maturity is every bit as important as his teammates'. 2. Dwyane Wade, Miami Heat Vitals: 25, 6-4, 212, 25, 27.4 pts, 4.7 reb., 7.5 ass., 2.1 stl., .491 FG, .807 FT The 2006 NBA Finals MVP really had a rough go of it physically last season with a dislocated shoulder and cartilage problems in his knee. Both necessitated surgery during the off-season. He won't be ready for a couple of weeks yet, and perhaps a little longer. But the promise is he'll have time to get into game shape before the regular season starts. And when he's right physically, he's among the top five players in the league. Wade could use a dependable point guard to ease some of his ballhandling responsibilities, and as his body breaks down, he'll need to expand his shooting range or all the acrobatics will ultimately shorten his career. However, the guy is relentless and extraordinary at getting his mid-range shot and/or to the rim — seemingly at will. The conundrum is what makes him great is also his greatest downfall — the recklessness has already taken a toll at such a young age. 3. Tracy McGrady, Houston Rockets Vitals: 28, 6-8, 223, 24.6 pts., 5.3 reb., 6.5 ass., 1.3 stl., .431 FG, .707 FT Don't let another first-round knockout mislead you. T-Mac proved last season he still has plenty of game left, and can carry his team for weeks, which he did last season when All-Star center Yao Ming was sidelined. His back and knee issues aren't going away, but he showed more mental toughness to play through them last year than ever before and that was a symbol of his maturity. Not only did he have his highest shooting percentage in four years, but he also had a career-high in assists. In the first round loss to Utah, McGrady averaged 7.3 assists — also a career best. So there is a growth both in his physical game and mental approach that a lot of people doubted before last season. If he stays healthy, don't underestimate what he will do for this team with the more wide-open approach new coach Rick Adelman will take. continued.... http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7299724?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=73
I would put Joe Johnson #4. He has disappeared off the NBA map because he plays for the Hawks. JJ shoots, handles, penetrates/finishes, passes and plays D. All very well.
Check out his per minute numbers next to Manu -- Ginobili is better. Even scoring is even (JJ wins by .1 of a point). Plus Manu plays better position defense, and doesn't get the shots/passing opportunities JJ does.
In this case, the per minute numbers don't tell the real story because JJ plays 50% more mins/game (41 vs. 27). This is especially true in per minute scoring. Manu is a fine player who often plays great when the stakes are highest. Similarly, in 04/05, his last year with the Suns, JJ was the 2nd most clutch player they had after Nash. JJ is a franchise type player who needs a decent team around him and an adequate coach to play for. You put Manu on the Hawks and he couldn't play effectively for 40+ mins/game every night. Playing on a deep team like the Spurs is exactly what he is programmed for. On offense, he also doesn't soak up nearly the attention from the defense that JJ does. Put JJ on the Spurs in place of Manu and they win 70+ games. JJ+TD+TP=Sickness to the nth degree.
I've forgotten so much about JJ that I almost forgot what he looks like. As the case with another ex-Suns, Quentin Richardson.
Q-rich was always overrated and look at him now. buried at the end of the knicks bench. if he actually had talent then hed be playing
Not a healthy Wade, no. Wade's offensive efficiency is off the charts, at least by today's standards. T-Mac has a slight edge as a passer and can play better defense when he wants to (largely due to his wingspan). But it's awefully close between all those guys. My ranking would be Kobe/Wade (equals, IMO), then Lebron/T-Mac and then Melo/Pierce. As for Wade, I just hope and pray that the shoulder injury doesn't derail what would otherwise be an all-time great in the making.
Obviously you haven't read the myriad studies that show that a player's per-minute numbers rise with the more minutes he plays. Save for the Oliver Miller/Sean May/Michael Sweetney triptych, the more a player plays, the better his per-minute stats are. There is no such thing as clutch, and if there were, go search around for Nash's sub-.30% shooting in the last 30 seconds of games. EDIT: It wasn't sub-30%. My bad. In '04, '05, and '06 combined, Nash was 1 of 15 from the floor with the Suns with 24 seconds or less with the game either tied of Phoenix down 1 or 2. If JJ was second best, does that mean he was 1 of 16? In the same way that Jamal Mashburn may have been, at times, a franchise-"type" player. You would start a franchise with Joe Johnson? Why, exactly? Does he start to get the shakes after 30 minutes? He comes off the bench, often playing without Duncan and/or Parker, and puts up better numbers than JJ. "Soak"ing or not, he puts up better numbers than Joe Johnson. He also puts up better numbers than Joe Johnson. I don't have a "sickness" chart for my stats, but I do see "points," "rebounds," "assists," and "steals." And Manu Ginobili is better at all of those (or, in the "points" area, equal) than Joe Johnson. He's also a better defender. Tell me more about this "sickness," please ...
Yes he did, per minute numbers are as much of an accurate description of a players ability as per game averages are. 28+ minutes a night is a decent sample size, but at the same time I value a player performing at that level for longer period of time, because if you use the same argument one could argue that Manu is better than Tmac. His per minute numbers certainly are. Dwyer its not exactly proven that a players numbers increase with more PT they could in fact decrease there really is no set trend. Manu's numbers and rings prove that hes in that class with the VC's, JJ's and dare I say Tmac. Its a hard discussion but I do agree that hes better than JJ I just dont think hes at Tmacs level.
There are trends that span 30 years, if you read up. Hollinger's books have been detailing this for years, and Tom Ziller and Mike Kurylo backed up and re-enforced those documents with separate studies done this summer. All I'm out to do is to dissuade people from writing things that "sound right." The bolded text in the post above mine is an egregious example of such.
I don't believe if you take a 27 minute player that his per minute stats would improve if he played 41. There may be some generic indicator than on average, more minutes equals better per minute stats, but with playing 41 mins/game every night, fatigue becomes a huge factor. At 27 mins/game, it is a non-factor. Clutch isn't just shooting percentage at the end of games, it's making the right play and ensuring a good shot regardless of who takes it. I also define clutch time (or crunch time) as the last 3-4 minutes of a tight games, not just the last 24 seconds of a game. My thoughts on the 04/05 Suns are based on observation. I think it's safe to say in the final minutes of close games, there were two main guys D'Antoni wanted to have the ball in their hands: Nash and JJ. If I had to choose between JJ and Manu, I'd choose JJ without the slightest hesitation. Who wouldn't? JJ is a level below Wade and Kobe, who are in a stratosphere by themselves. An effective 41 mins/game over a full season is something only a few players can do. I have little doubt you would get diminishing returns from Manu on the extra 14 mins/game from 27 to 41. He puts up better per minute numbers, which don't tell the whole story. If one lives and dies by those, fine. I don't. Diminishing returns. It's how Rockets fans would feel if JJ was on the Spurs instead of Manu. Manu is a decent defender, not that great. Once again, if he was on the floor 41 mins/game, his D effort would drop off. Then again, he could just flop more. If the Rockets could trade Tracy for either JJ or Manu, who in their right mind would take Manu? What NBA team would take Manu over JJ?
