Amnesty for Illegals

I dont see how anyone could be for this.....if you came here illegaly, than you shoudl be deported.
Getting into this country isnt that hard to do legally...take the time to do it right if you want to take advantage of the benefits of living here.

The current administration is for it since it makes them look good to the latinos that are already citizens....

but then again, I wonder how many of the mexican american community thinks like my stepdad....he has zero respect for what he terms as "wetbacks"(his word, not mine)....oh..and btw...his last name is Gonzalez....yes..of mexican heritage...

 

I agree. You have folks from New Zealand to Singapore to Finland trying to get in legally, and we're supposed to "reward" those who come here illegally? This is a subject where I depart from many of my liberal friends. It really bugs the hell out of me. And I've known several Latino native Texans over the years who were angry about it as well.




Keep D&D Civil!!

 

I think it may be a way to swing votes that usually go Democratic but other than that, I dont see the benefit at all.

 

I see two economic issues as a result of Illegal Immigrants being in the US.

#1: As we have artificial price floors like minimum wages in this country, it adversely affects the job market and is a net loss to the economy and increases unemployment. Having illegal immigrants actually makes this system more efficient as many work below minimum wage.

#2: Currently even if one is an illegal immigrant they can recieve police protection, healthcare coverage and a large amount of other social services that they would recieve if they were here legally. If they were to be made legal to work in the US, they would recieve the same benefits, yet they would have to pay taxes to recieve the benefits which would increase government revenue.

The question is the tradeoff between these two factors. I don't like the idea of people being rewarded for breaking the law and I am very weary of the affect it will have on others. Bush, with his support of Gonzalez for Attorney General and this Amnesty act is really trying to pander to latin american voters though.

 

The issue is a little more complicated than that. If people immigrated here illegally and then had children here, those children our citizens. Should the family be seperated? Should the children who are American citizens be deprived of their best hope for an opportunity at a good education?

I think it isn't hard to visit the U.S. legally, but I think it is very hard to become a citizen of the U.S. or to get a green card. If somebody is here and is contributing to society by working, has American citizens in their family, and hasn't been in trouble with the law for a long period of time, I don't have a problem granting them citizenship, if they take the regular test that others have to take.

 

I work with a lot of Mexican immigrants and have found they are better workers (and citizens) than many of our own natives.

I someone wants to come here and take advantage of opportunities that our own citizens are too lazy to, then more power to them.

I propose that we initiate a trading policy. We get Mexican immigrants that want to be here and we send them disenfranchised people like Alex Baldwin and others. Though the numbers would be heavily slanted in our favor, don't know if they'd take that deal without some draft picks.

 

This seems like a cop out. We can't do anything about them being here so let's just make them legal. Then we don't have an illegal immigration problem. Meanwhile peopel that are trying to do it the legal way have to wait even longer. Stupid.

 

legal? or illegal?

I have nothing against legal immigrants....I dont feel we should reward illegals when there are plenty of legal immigrants that want to come here...if they want to come here and take advantage of our great county..make them go thru the channels like everyone else.

whether or not they are hard workers has absolutley zero to do with this.

 

I'm happy about it. But then, I also would like to open our border to Canadians and Mexicans so that all citizens of either country were allowed to work here. Can't have free trade without the free movement of labor. (Yes, I recognize how much havoc that would wreck on our economy.)

 

Bush's pseudo-amnesty is a joke. Kerry's plan would have pretty much been the same (if not even more lenient).

This issue shows the hypocrisy of both major politcal parties.

Both sides are pandering to the Latino vote. Also -

The Republicans probably see some benefit for the big-business constituencies who would like a virtually unlimited supply of cheap labor.

The Democrats see a pool of potential voters who largely vote for the side that promises for taxpayer funded public benefits (ie. themselves).

I wonder what would have happened if Kerry came out with a vigilant anti-illegal immigration policy. He could have spun it with a concern for the low-end American labor market or national security concerns.

It seems that the Republicans and Democrats made an implicit agreement to keep the issue quiet and essentially make it a non-issue in the election.

We need a populist who see the dangers that an unfettered wave of low-skill poor illegals can bring. I live in Southern California and our emergency rooms are dropping like flies. A commonly cited cause is the influx of illegals who cannot pay for the services they receive.

 

I wonder if this is really pandering to the latino vote? From the testimonies here, legal latino immigrants resent the heck out of the illegal ones. Is that a general truism in that community?

 

you're right, and this has been true historically for almost all immigrants. The staunchest opponents are usually legalized immigrants and 1st/2nd generation immigrants (aka Americans). I wouldn't say general truism, but for minority families working their way up in society, it is usually the new ones coming in who they have to compete with initially. Its easy to work harder than people who have been here a while and are lazy, but not the case for fresh blood.

I've read about Asian-americans wanting to cap immigration to stop other asians from coming in (indians, chinese, SE asians), middle class African americans wanting to stop Africans from coming, especially those that do illegal activity. and settled latino-americans against new immigrants as well. Fact is, after immigrants settle down and start fitting in to society, it is the immigrants which hurt their social standing and make them seem less American. I don't agree with it, but historically a common feeling.

I remember when all the Irish came in, they had to work up from the bottom and Americans generally didn't like them. But then a slew of other immigrants came in, and they found out it was best policy to turn the Irish immigrants into policemen, since they hated the other immigrants. by hating, not sympthazing, they were able to become more like American culture, and increase their social capital. Same thing happens today, because it works. Nothing makes a colored person more attractive to the population in this country than seeing them have disdain against new colored folks.

 

Illegal immigrant pay their taxes. The only tax they don't pay is their FICA, but then again they don't expected to receive SS benefits. (Low wage earners usually do not pay income taxes. They pay property taxes indirectly when they pay rent. They pay sales tax just like the rest of us.)

FWIW, illegal immigration would be trivial to stop. Make the fines for employing illegals extreme and employers would be hughly motivated to stop hiring illegals.

 

no worries great reply. the idiocy that illegal immigrants dont pay taxes is mind boggling. the only taxes they wouldn't pay would be federal income taxes. and those are progressive anyway so it wouldn't matter.

and as far as the ERs are concerned...its an indictment of the health care system, not immigration. the only place where everyone is promised care is the ER which also incidentally is the most expensive place. if we had more widespread healthcare coverage that wouldn't be a problem. and its not just immigrants its poor people and especially those in inner cities.

 

Where would you draw the line though?

The fact is, illegals hurt the economy in the short-run.

A sudden influx of people who who receive more in public benefits than they pay is just bad. It creates an extra burden on other taxpayers.

Also - a sudden influx of low-skill labor will additionally hurt those on the lower-end of the economic scale - by lowering wages and increasing unemployment. I think these elements far outweigh any benefit derived from lower prices.

 

You'd be wrong, at least according to the market and most economists who study the issue.

 

If that were the case, I agree that it would be a bad thing.

 

My thoughts on illegal immigration:

"Illegals are hard workers who do jobs that lazy American workers won't". I hate hearing this. The truth is, illegal workers work for MUCH less than the minimum wage established by our government. It is illegal for citizens to work for less. This distroys small business. How can a landscaping company who employs people legally compete with another landscaper that hires illegals and pays almost nothing for labor costs? They can't. And this happens with custodians, construction, plumbing... just about any physical labor job you can think of. This is just one example of how illegal immigrants and their employers are being disrespectful to the United States.

AND... those who employ illegals are skirting the law and not paying fair wages for the work that is being done. Just because a worker is willing to dig a ditch for 50 cents an hour doesn't mean that that's a fair wage. The employer is taking advantage of the worker, whether the worker accepts it or not.

By far the biggest flaw in our illegal immigration policy is in the Constitution of the U.S., which states that anyone born in the U.S. (even born to illegals) is a citizen. That means that when Juan and Maria hop the border and give birth to 15 kids, all 15 are citizens. That's devastating to our economy.

And when illegal Juan rapes illegal Maria, who pays for the police investigation? Who pays for the hopital and ambulance? Who pays for the federal investigation when illegals like Rafael Ramirez hops on a train across the border and murders people?

I feel that I should provide some background about myself.
I am the product of an interracial marriage between my mom and my dad. My mom and her entire family are from Mexico (the Garcia family). They came here, legally, when she was 6. They have learned the language and culture of the U.S., have contributed to it, and have always respected it. After years of being a legal immigrant, my mother (and others in her family) achieved her citizenship and is able to vote in elections. She is an outstanding model of legal immigration to the U.S..

Therefore, it angers me greatly to hear people providing such strong support for illegal immigration. It is distrespectful and damaging to this country, and to say otherwise is simply ignorant. This country allows people to enter legally (something that many countries do not allow), and by breaking our immigration laws, illegals show tremendous disrespect to the U.S. by entering illegally.

-- droxford

 

Didn't you leave off the part about being illegal?