American Justice 2007?: 'To Catch a Predator': A Sting Gone Bad

Rocket River · Sep 7, 2007

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/09/to-catch-a-pred.html

'To Catch a Predator': A Sting Gone Bad
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Share September 07, 2007 5:32 PM

Brian Ross and Vic Walter Report:

Despite all of its success in bringing attention to the problem of adults sexually preying on children over the Internet, NBC's "Dateline" series, "To Catch a Predator," has raised some troubling questions for both law enforcement and the news media.

As six other police departments had done before, the Murphy, Texas police department made a deal with "Dateline": to allow NBC cameras to record the sting and to let people hired by "Dateline" actually set up and run the sting, much to the astonishment of a local district attorney.

Photos: A Sting Gone Bad
In a letter sent to the Murphy police department in advance, Collin County District Attorney John Roach said the deal was a bad idea.

We're "in the law enforcement business, not show business," read the letter.

In an interview with ABC News, Roach explained his letter,"The police department, the professionals weren't in control of the entire operation. They weren't calling the shots; somebody else was."

Click Here for Full Blotter Coverage.
But the district attorney's warning was ignored.

The sting set up by NBC and Perverted Justice -- a civilian watchdog group hired as a paid consultant by NBC -- brought in some 20 men, who were arrested as alleged sexual predators.

But the one man, the one very important man "Dateline" thought it had caught, did not show up.

William Conradt, 56, an assistant district attorney in a neighboring county, did not go to the sting house even after Dateline had one of its actors call him three different times to get him to walk into the trap.

Watch the Brian Ross Investigates Webcast
"There's no question that they wanted him," said Bruce Baron, the attorney representing the Conradt family in a lawsuit against NBC. "There's no question that they would take him at any price."

With Conradt not taking the bait, a decision was made to go get him at his home in the nearby town of Terrell.

It was a decision that would raise questions about why the rush to arrest him on a Sunday afternoon.

Former Murphy police officer Sam Love, who appeared on "To Catch a Predator" and has since left the force in disgust, says the decision was made at the suggestion of NBC's Chris Hansen.

"Their hope was that the man would come out to go to the store for something or the church or whatever, and Chris Hansen and his crew could confront him and interview him before the arrest was made," Love told ABC News.

NBC and the Murphy police deny NBC played any role in the decision to make the arrest, which involved a swat team breaking down Conradt's door when he did not answer.

Conradt's sister Patricia told "20/20" the police broke in and then headed down a hallway to the bedroom where her brother was waiting for them with a gun in his hand.

"They came in, and they see him," Patricia said. "He says, 'Guys, I'm not gonna hurt anybody.' And then he put the gun to his head and shot."

Police called in a helicopter to rush the critically injured suspect to the hospital.

William Conradt died shortly after the helicopter landed at a Dallas hospital.

"I understand he took his own life, but I have a feeling that he took his own life when he looked out the door and saw there were a bunch of television cameras outside," said former Murphy detective Walt Weiss, who like Love, left the force in disgust.

The two former Murphy detectives say many in their department shrugged off Conradt's death.

"It didn't matter that that person died because he was just, in their opinion, a child molester or a pervert, if you will," Weiss told ABC News. "I mean it was pushed aside and shoved under the rug."

NBC and Perverted Justice have both strongly defended their actions in the case, but no one from either organization would agree to appear on "20/20."

In a "Dateline" update broadcast just a few days ago, reporter Chris Hansen offered a new possible explanation for Conradt's suicide, saying "they found child p*rnography on his computer" after his death.

As for the other 23 alleged sexual predators arrested that day, the district attorney, John Roach, has thrown out their cases, saying the police's reliance on NBC "Dateline's" investigation compromised the evidence obtained.

Murphy police chief Bill Myrick adamantly denies this.

bladeage · Sep 7, 2007

yikes!

DonnyMost · Sep 7, 2007

i think this thread has a rather lengthy discussion about this event

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=132380&page=1&pp=20

but yeah, that show can suck it

Fatty FatBastard · Sep 8, 2007

I don't know why, but even I think some of the tings perverted justice does is wrong.

For example, say a guy is curious because he likes younger women. (and by seeing one of my friends p*rn "baskets", I certainly saw most being "barely legal" and one of my other friends salivating at borrowing some.)

(and for those who don't know, yes I watch p*rn. But I watch 80's p*rn because it has a plot. My favorite is older women, so unless that becomes against the law, I've nothing to worry about.)

The problem is a guy going on there liking younger women, and perverted justice giving him exactly what he wants. ie. If you find younger women or men attractive, and this younger person keeps goading you, you want to check it out.

While I believe that Dateline caught some scumbags, I also think they found some guys that were busted that wouldn't have taken it any farther unless the opportunity was there

The fact is, most guys don't molest. If we find a girl we like, we let them decide. If an older man meets with a 15 yr. old and she says she's uncomfortable, and the man respects that, is it a crime?

As much as we all hate pedophiles, we also know that both men & women have become much more active than back in my day. I'm not saying it is right. The youngest girl I've done anything with since I have been older was 22. And she knew Harrisment.

Hell, I remember when I was in high school, I refused to date anyone younger than myself. My lil bro. is the same way. We both like older women.

That said, if it were illegal, and an older woman tried to seduce me over the internet, I'd head over to her place, also.

To summarize, IMO, there is a big difference in people fantasizing over the internet, and adding fuel to the fire.

The ADA who killed himself was proof. He was living out some weird fantasy online, where you can and should, be able to be whomever you want to be.

Perverted justice tried as hard as they could to take it beyond that. He refused. When cops showed up at his doorstep, he killed himself.

To those in make-believe land known as WoW or Everquest, or whatever, I say let sleeping dogs lie.

Perverted justice is all about trying to fulfill fantasies that these guys wouldn't necessarily have, and then busting them.

Again, for example, if I went into a 40's chat, and some woman there started talking about wearing a thong and seducing younger men, and wanting me to come over, I'd be over as soon as I could.

Perverted justice takes advantage of men who wouldn't be willing to do anything otherwise, IMO.

robbie380 · Sep 8, 2007

Fatty FatBastard said:

I don't know why, but even I think some of the tings perverted justice does is wrong.

For example, say a guy is curious because he likes younger women. (and by seeing one of my friends p*rn "baskets", I certainly saw most being "barely legal" and one of my other friends salivating at borrowing some.)

(and for those who don't know, yes I watch p*rn. But I watch 80's p*rn because it has a plot. My favorite is older women, so unless that becomes against the law, I've nothing to worry about.)

The problem is a guy going on there liking younger women, and perverted justice giving him exactly what he wants. ie. If you find younger women or men attractive, and this younger person keeps goading you, you want to check it out.

While I believe that Dateline caught some scumbags, I also think they found some guys that were busted that wouldn't have taken it any farther unless the opportunity was there

The fact is, most guys don't molest. If we find a girl we like, we let them decide. If an older man meets with a 15 yr. old and she says she's uncomfortable, and the man respects that, is it a crime?

As much as we all hate pedophiles, we also know that both men & women have become much more active than back in my day. I'm not saying it is right. The youngest girl I've done anything with since I have been older was 22. And she knew Harrisment.

Hell, I remember when I was in high school, I refused to date anyone younger than myself. My lil bro. is the same way. We both like older women.

That said, if it were illegal, and an older woman tried to seduce me over the internet, I'd head over to her place, also.

To summarize, IMO, there is a big difference in people fantasizing over the internet, and adding fuel to the fire.

The ADA who killed himself was proof. He was living out some weird fantasy online, where you can and should, be able to be whomever you want to be.

Perverted justice tried as hard as they could to take it beyond that. He refused. When cops showed up at his doorstep, he killed himself.

To those in make-believe land known as WoW or Everquest, or whatever, I say let sleeping dogs lie.

Perverted justice is all about trying to fulfill fantasies that these guys wouldn't necessarily have, and then busting them.

Again, for example, if I went into a 40's chat, and some woman there started talking about wearing a thong and seducing younger men, and wanting me to come over, I'd be over as soon as I could.

Perverted justice takes advantage of men who wouldn't be willing to do anything otherwise, IMO.
Click to expand...

i understand exactly what you are saying and i agree but it is going to be funny how people will twist your words.

Mr. Brightside · Sep 8, 2007

Fatty FatBastard said:

I don't know why, but even I think some of the tings perverted justice does is wrong.

For example, say a guy is curious because he likes younger women. (and by seeing one of my friends p*rn "baskets", I certainly saw most being "barely legal" and one of my other friends salivating at borrowing some.)

(and for those who don't know, yes I watch p*rn. But I watch 80's p*rn because it has a plot. My favorite is older women, so unless that becomes against the law, I've nothing to worry about.)

The problem is a guy going on there liking younger women, and perverted justice giving him exactly what he wants. ie. If you find younger women or men attractive, and this younger person keeps goading you, you want to check it out.

While I believe that Dateline caught some scumbags, I also think they found some guys that were busted that wouldn't have taken it any farther unless the opportunity was there

The fact is, most guys don't molest. If we find a girl we like, we let them decide. If an older man meets with a 15 yr. old and she says she's uncomfortable, and the man respects that, is it a crime?

As much as we all hate pedophiles, we also know that both men & women have become much more active than back in my day. I'm not saying it is right. The youngest girl I've done anything with since I have been older was 22. And she knew Harrisment.

Hell, I remember when I was in high school, I refused to date anyone younger than myself. My lil bro. is the same way. We both like older women.

That said, if it were illegal, and an older woman tried to seduce me over the internet, I'd head over to her place, also.

To summarize, IMO, there is a big difference in people fantasizing over the internet, and adding fuel to the fire.

The ADA who killed himself was proof. He was living out some weird fantasy online, where you can and should, be able to be whomever you want to be.

Perverted justice tried as hard as they could to take it beyond that. He refused. When cops showed up at his doorstep, he killed himself.

To those in make-believe land known as WoW or Everquest, or whatever, I say let sleeping dogs lie.

Perverted justice is all about trying to fulfill fantasies that these guys wouldn't necessarily have, and then busting them.

Again, for example, if I went into a 40's chat, and some woman there started talking about wearing a thong and seducing younger men, and wanting me to come over, I'd be over as soon as I could.

Perverted justice takes advantage of men who wouldn't be willing to do anything otherwise, IMO.
Click to expand...

The Pedo Manifesto?

j.k, I agree with what you said.

Rocket River · Sep 8, 2007

Fatty FatBastard said:

To those in make-believe land known as WoW or Everquest, or whatever, I say let sleeping dogs lie.

Perverted justice is all about trying to fulfill fantasies that these guys wouldn't necessarily have, and then busting them.

Perverted justice takes advantage of men who wouldn't be willing to do anything otherwise, IMO.
Click to expand...

I Agree
I wonder when will we try to set up people who do immoral things in Fantasy land
"He raped my 12 yr old daughter .. . in SIMS. he has pedophile tendency . . let's set him up"

Rocket River
I *hate* pedophiles. . . but until they cross the line . . . or attempt too .. d don't brand them
I also have deep concerns about Entrapment

KingCheetah · Sep 8, 2007

The thing that has bothered me about that show is the way the guys just come to the house one after another non-stop. That would indicate that in the real world there are really that many underage kids wanting sex with old men -or- these guys were being entrapped.

Certainly though if you look at all the convicted sex offenders in you zip code there will be plenty of sickos so who knows for sure really.

SamFisher · Sep 8, 2007

KingCheetah said:

The thing that has bothered me about that show is the way the guys just come to the house one after another non-stop. That would indicate that in the real world there are really that many underage kids wanting sex with old men -or- these guys were being entrapped.
Click to expand...

I don't think there is much of a real world of 14 year olds seducing 50 year olds, that's why these guys are like "holy sh-t, jackpot!"

ipaman · Sep 8, 2007

SamFisher said:

I don't think there is much of a real world of 14 year olds seducing 50 year olds, that's why these guys are like "holy sh-t, jackpot!"
Click to expand...

I think your right and they should be fully prosecuted when they try and claim that jackpot!

KingCheetah · Sep 8, 2007

SamFisher said:

I don't think there is much of a real world of 14 year olds seducing 50 year olds, that's why these guys are like "holy sh-t, jackpot!"
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's what I was getting at ~ I wondered how much the perverted justice people push the envelope to get them to bite.
_____

Look at some of the crap they sell at their website...

http://www.cafepress.com/peej/250157

Strange.

MadMax · Sep 8, 2007

anyone see the 20/20 special on this last night.

i really didn't like this show before....this made it much worse.

this was SOLELY for entertainment...and the whole "investigation" was led by NBC, not the police.

it left them with NOTHING to prosecute these guys with. they couldn't even give the DA full transcripts of the chat sessions for him to work with.

other law enforcement agents talked about how ridiculous and dangerous it was to have cops running through front yards in suburban neighborhoods with guns pulled for these things. "purely for entertainment" one of them said.

the guy who killed himself....they had the kid who was pretending to be the 15 year old boy call him 3 times to invite him over. he never once came over. he was pretending to be a 19 year old boy. my guess is he never had any intention of going over there...but was playing out a fantasy in his mind. when they realize who it is who is calling...a prominent local attorney...they start clapping..."woo hoo...we'll get him." sick.

so instead of waiting to arrest him at his office...or waiting to get him when he was leaving for work in the morning....they show up at his house on a sunday afternoon...they surround his house with cops. he never comes out. at Chris Hanson's suggestion, the cops call him...using the phone number that Dateline had obtained. they eventually invade his home. and the man shoots himself.

the police chief was there at the scene....they interviewed him and he denied most of these facts...but when they showed the outtakes, it proved him a liar. this whole thing was operated by NBC. this isn't Cops where they're along for the ride. they run the show. law enforcement brought to you by NBC.

and the fruits of it all: not one conviction....but one suicide. nice work, dumbasses.

SamFisher · Sep 8, 2007

ipaman said:

I think your right and they should be fully prosecuted when they try and claim that jackpot!
Click to expand...

but what if the jackpot wouldn't exist but for the fact that it was created?

Let's say there is a guy. Let's say if a 15 year old wanted to bone him and he wouldn't get caught, he would do it, but he doesn't have the resolve to go out and rape somebody or molest a 7 year old. Does creating a situation where he will break the law, a situation that he would probably go his entire life without encountering, seem problematic? It does to me.

DaDakota · Sep 8, 2007

SamFisher said:

but what if the jackpot wouldn't exist but for the fact that it was created?

Let's say there is a guy. Let's say if a 15 year old wanted to bone him and he wouldn't get caught, he would do it, but he doesn't have the resolve to go out and rape somebody or molest a 7 year old. Does creating a situation where he will break the law, a situation that he would probably go his entire life without encountering, seem problematic? It does to me.
Click to expand...

Yes, it does. I thought entrapment was illegal in itself.

DonnyMost · Sep 8, 2007

The more I think about this show the more it pisses me off.

I agree whole heartedly with what has been said in this thread, and this guy really raises some good points, IMO.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/x4hXfpdj2x4"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/x4hXfpdj2x4" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

and to get an idea of who is running this show, check out this confrontation a Dallas reporter has with the owner of the site, the guy looks like a freaking loser and acts like a damn child... very full of himself.. self righteous.. petulant... defensive... (apparently the guy changed his name to Xavier Von Erck after the show got popular... if that gives you any idea what kind of a douche this dude is)

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mjwtmw_sAk0"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mjwtmw_sAk0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

MadMax · Sep 8, 2007

Another good point raised on the 20/20 special:

is NBC acting as an agent for the cops? if so, then when Hansen says, "sit down, i want to ask you some questions"..is that an arrest? a stop? what is it?

last night they showed a clip where he kept telling a guy to sit down. the guy said, "am i under arrest?" clearly the guy had no idea if hansen was a police officer or not. and if they're orchestrating the whole deal, then they have become the authorities through principles of agency, as i understand it.

so when Hansen asks those questions...are the answers admissible in court? he certainly doesn't read them Miranda warnings.

Another Brother · Sep 8, 2007

MadMax said:

so when Hansen asks those questions...are the answers admissible in court? he certainly doesn't read them Miranda warnings.
Click to expand...

Res Gestae maybe?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Res_gestae

couple of d's · Sep 8, 2007

the perverted justice guy looks like kevin smith

couple of d's · Sep 8, 2007

StupidMoniker · Sep 8, 2007

Fatty FatBastard said:

I don't know why, but even I think some of the tings perverted justice does is wrong...
Click to expand...

What if Perverted Justice didn't chat with one of these guys, but they day after they had been planning it, a real 14 year old girl did? Would it be better to let that happen, or present an opportunity that might otherwise never happen, and then nail them for taking it?
This is no different than having cops pretend to be hookers. They don't solicit the pedos/johns, they just dangle some bait out there. They do it because they know that the real thing it going to be out there too, and they want to try to prevent little kids from being molested.
I think they should probably limit themselves to arresting people that actually show up, but I think what the DA did was a crime, so if they want to go to his house and arrest him, they are well within their rights.

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