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American Indian Wants Son to Use Peyote

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by MR. MEOWGI, Dec 29, 2002.

  1. MR. MEOWGI

    MR. MEOWGI Contributing Member

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    American Indian Wants Son to Use Peyote

    BY JAMES PRICHARD
    THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
    SATURDAY December 28, 2002

    WHITE CLOUD, Mich. -- Jon Fowler wants his 4-year-old son to have the right to take peyote with him. It's a matter of religious freedom, he says.
    A member of the Grand Traverse Band of Ottawa and Chippewa Indians, Jon Fowler belongs to the Native American Church of the Morning Star, where the hallucinogen is taken as a sacrament. Fowler wants his son to join him in the rite, if the boy wishes.
    But a judge may bar Fowler from doing so, in a case that pits the Constitution's guarantee of religious freedom against a mother's wish to protect her child.
    Fowler's ex-wife, Kristin Hanslovsky, a 31-year-old Montague resident who is not an American Indian, fears that peyote would harm her son and doesn't want him anywhere near it.
    Fowler, a 35-year-old resident of Traverse City who earns a living by selling food and crafts at powwows, credits his use of peyote with helping him overcome alcoholism and forge a relationship with God.
    Judge Graydon Dimkoff, who two years ago gave physical custody of the child to Fowler, prohibited him from allowing his son to be given peyote. The father appealed and after hearing arguments, the Michigan Court of Appeals returned the case to Dimkoff, directing him to determine whether peyote use could harm the child. The next hearing is set for March 21.
    Peyote, a bitter-tasting cactus that grows in southern Texas and northern Mexico, has been a part of Indian culture for thousands of years. Those who ingest the plant -- usually drunk as a tea or eaten as a greenish paste -- believe it provides enlightenment and other spiritual and physical benefits.
    The plant's active chemical ingredient is mescaline, a hallucinogen. The U.S. criminal code classifies peyote as a controlled substance, and in most instances a person caught with more than 4 ounces faces the possibility of a 20-year prison sentence.
    But during the last century, peyote's use in religious rites spread among Indians throughout the United States, including the upper Midwest. Congress recognized this sacramental use of peyote eight years ago by amending the American Indian Religious Freedom Act of 1978 to protect the practice in all 50 states.
    Fowler's attorney, Thomas Myers of Michigan Indian Legal Services, said the case was about ensuring that "rights guaranteed to Native Americans by treaty or statute are secured, and I think that would include constitutional rights."
    Martin Holmes, a North Muskegon attorney representing Hanslovsky, did not return a call to his office. Hanslovsky has said she does not want to violate anyone's religious freedom, but that feeding the boy peyote "could cause him harm or long-term neurological defects."
    Testifying on Fowler's behalf at a court hearing last month, John H. Halpern, a psychiatrist and researcher at Harvard Medical School, said he has found no evidence of a child or adult being harmed by the use of peyote in Indian religious services.
    "This is a sacred ceremony," said Halpern, who has conducted an extensive study of peyote use among Indians. "It's not something to entertain people."
    About 300,000 Indians who belong to the Native American Church of North America, the nation's largest church for indigenous peoples, ingest some form of the cactus, he said.
    But some members of these types of congregations do not believe children should take the substance.
    Anne Zapf, who with her husband runs the Peyote Way Church of God in Klondike, Ariz., feels children should be allowed to attend spiritual ceremonies where peyote is dispensed, but should not ingest it.
    At Zapf's church, where peyote is used once or twice a year, a person must be at least 18 -- or 14, with parental permission -- to take it.
    "I'm not even into handing peyote to anybody who's under 30 because most people aren't emotionally mature enough or prepared by life enough for the experience," she said.
    "Peyote is an introspective experience. It's a God experience and generally you have to have a few sins under your belt."
    Most children also would not enjoy the acrid taste, she said.
    "It tastes bad and it makes you throw up," she said.
    Halpern, the Harvard psychiatrist, questioned the court's decision to take up the matter, since the federal government has affirmed the sacramental use of peyote. He views the case as potentially harmful to American Indian culture.
    "We have to protect these people's traditions and ways," he said.

    http://www.sltrib.com/2002/Dec/12282002/saturday/15463.asp
     
  2. Pole

    Pole Houston Rockets--Tilman Fertitta's latest mess.

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    I thought it tasted like Nestle quick?
     
  3. t4651965

    t4651965 Member

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    What a sick story. I hope that man rots in jail if he doses his son.
     
  4. Castor27

    Castor27 Moderator
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    The district where I worked had a kid with the same last name as that guy. He too was of Native American decent from his father(The mother and kids had just moved into the area from somewhere up North and was she divorced from the father) The kid insisted on wearing his hair in a long pony tail(it went against dress codes) because he was Native American. His father was the one that told him that he could do it. I wonder if it is the same guy. I know it isn't the same kid because this kid would be older than the one in the story but kind of a strange coincidence with the similarities of the two.

    CK
     
  5. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    Yeah so did I. Oh wait, that was a question:eek: !

    I don't think a four year old should be taking peyote, or extracted mescaline (that's what tastes like Nestle Quick). If an adult or young adult is participating in a religious ceremony that is one thing. A four year old is too young IMO.
     
  6. BanginScrew

    BanginScrew Member

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    What about kids that drink wine in Catholic Churches ... should their parents, and the priest be sent to jail also for giving alcohol to a minor?
     
  7. MR. MEOWGI

    MR. MEOWGI Contributing Member

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    Have a Happy Day! :)
     
  8. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    Well, it is legal to drink underage with your parents' supervision, so I don't know what charges you could press. But I do agree that the venom in the response was unwarranted. The man is fighting for his rights, not necessarily that he wants his son to actually take the drug. Apparently, he and other Indians already have the right to use peyote. I don't even think this case is about religious freedom -- it seems to me to be about the man's custody rights over his son. Does he have the unilateral right to conduct his son's religious life or does his ex-wife get some say.
     
  9. dylan

    dylan Member

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    I am under the impression that this is a state law, not national. In Texas this is true but I don't think so in other states...
     
  10. t4651965

    t4651965 Member

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    Juan, your argument is not convincing. Using your logic, if beating children were part of a religious ritual, then our government should not interfere.

    Giving children hallucinogins is CHILD ABUSE. Why would any person in their FREAKING RIGHT MIND condone inflicting possible psychotrauma on a 4 year old mind??????????

    If you really agree with this father, do society a favor- DON'T HAVE CHILDREN.
     
  11. MR. MEOWGI

    MR. MEOWGI Contributing Member

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    You have absolutely no understanding and respect for the Ottawa and Chippewa. Their culture is beyond your scope of reality. Therefore, you are not fit to judge.
     
  12. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    First of all, calm down. Second, I don't understand Meowgi's counter to this post at all.

    Third, I think you are missing my point. If you're worried about the safety of my future children, I don't think the kid in question or any other children or even adults should be allowed to use peyote. If it were up to me, it'd be banned altogether.

    However, according to the article, the right of American Indians to use peyote had already been confirmed by congress in 1978. From what I understand, if there is a child of a married American Indian couple, there would be no question as to whether the law would allow that child to consume peyote in a religious service. Likewise, if this father were the sole guardian of the child and the mother was dead, there would probably be no question about it. So the question here is what effect do the facts of this case that the man is divorced, the mother doesn't want her son to partake, and the father has custody -- have on a father's right to determine his son's religious life.

    It is different in the child beating example you describe because the right to beat your children has been denied all citizens, whereas the right to give your children peyote has been confirmed for American Indians.
     
  13. MR. MEOWGI

    MR. MEOWGI Contributing Member

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    I'm sure the Ottawa and Chippewa are very thankfull for us giving them their "rights". :rolleyes:

    How Arrogant.
     
  14. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    I think I'm beginning to understand. Seems some folks come here just looking for ways they can feel they've been slighted. For the record, I said the Indians' rights were 'confirmed' not 'given.' Regardless, this likely is the last time you'll see me responding to one of your posts.
     
  15. t4651965

    t4651965 Member

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    If their culture includes giving 4 year old children psychodelic drugs, then their "culture" needs to be forcibly altered.

    Did you know that some people need medical attention because of the effects of peyote? The high can last up to 12 hours, and bad trips occur. Anybody that would administer this drug to a child should be beaten senseless.
     
  16. Timing

    Timing Member

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    Did you even read this part?

    Congress recognized this sacramental use of peyote eight years ago by amending the American Indian Religious Freedom Act of 1978 to protect the practice in all 50 states.

    It doesn't say anything about there being an age stipulation in this amendment. This looks perfectly legal. Where is Refman, we need an equal protection argument here. :)
     
  17. t4651965

    t4651965 Member

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    Timing is on record here as advocating drugs for pre-schoolers. Shame on you Timing.;)
     
  18. MR. MEOWGI

    MR. MEOWGI Contributing Member

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    Sorry if you took my post as a personal attack? :confused: I just meant that we should just let these people be. I don't think it matters if "we" sanctify their culture. It is theirs alone.
     
  19. MR. MEOWGI

    MR. MEOWGI Contributing Member

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    I think it has been forcibly altered enough. :(

    ethnocentric: an adjective describing the condition of viewing and judging (often in pejorative terms) other cultures and societies according to the (usually taken-for-granted) assumptions of one’s own society.
     
  20. t4651965

    t4651965 Member

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    So Mr. Meowgi, I take it that you support a "hands off" approach to female circumcision as well. I mean, why should we complain if young girls are mutilated?? Mr. Meowgi says that we need to respect their culture!
    :rolleyes:
     

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