1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Ambassador: Bush didn't know there were two sects of Islam

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by tigermission1, Aug 10, 2006.

  1. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2002
    Messages:
    15,557
    Likes Received:
    17
    Not sure how credible this is, but it would explain a lot...

    Ambassador claims shortly before invasion, Bush didn't know there were two sects of Islam

    http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Ambassador_claims_shortly_before_invasion_Bush_0804.html

    Former Ambassador to Croatia Peter Galbraith is claiming President George W. Bush was unaware that there were two major sects of Islam just two months before the President ordered troops to invade Iraq, RAW STORY has learned.

    In his new book, The End of Iraq: How American Incompetence Created A War Without End, Galbraith, the son of the late economist John Kenneth Galbraith, claims that American leadership knew very little about the nature of Iraqi society and the problems it would face after the overthrow of Saddam Hussein.

    A year after his “Axis of Evil” speech before the U.S. Congress, President Bush met with three Iraqi Americans, one of whom became postwar Iraq’s first representative to the United States. The three described what they thought would be the political situation after the fall of Saddam Hussein. During their conversation with the President, Galbraith claims, it became apparent to them that Bush was unfamiliar with the distinction between Sunnis and Shiites.

    Galbraith reports that the three of them spent some time explaining to Bush that there are two different sects in Islam--to which the President allegedly responded, “I thought the Iraqis were Muslims!”

    Research by RAW STORY has confirmed a surprising lack of public statements from the president regarding the branches of Islam, but did uncover at least one mention of their existence. A fact sheet released by the White House in December of 2001 does indeed use the term Sunni to describe a Lashkar-E-Tayyib, "the armed wing of the Pakistan-based religious organization, Markaz-ud-Dawa-wal-Irshad." Other mentions, not originating from the White House, were common in government documents and proceedings, as well as in media coverage of the middle east.

    Other reports also place Bush announcing newfound knowledge of the differences between Muslim groups shortly before entering the Iraq war.

    In an interview with RAW STORY, Ambassador Galbraith recounted this anecdote from his book to exemplify “a culture of arrogance that pervaded the whole administration.”

    “From the president and the vice president down through the neoconservatives at the Pentagon, there was a belief that Iraq was a blank slate on which the United States could impose its vision of a pluralistic democratic society,” said Galbraith. “The arrogance came in the form of a belief that this could be accomplished with minimal effort and planning by the United States and that it was not important to know something about Iraq.”

    The Bush Administration’s aims when it invaded Iraq in March 2003 were to bring it democracy and transform the Middle East. Instead, Iraq has reverted to its three constituent components: a pro-western Kurdistan, an Iran-dominated Shiite theocracy in the south, and a chaotic Sunni Arab region in the center.

    Galbraith argues that because the new Iraq was never a voluntary creation of its people--but rather held together by force--America’s ongoing attempt to preserve a unified nation is guaranteed to fail, especially since it’s divided into three different entities.

    “You can’t have a national unity government when there is no nation, no unity, and no government,” said Galbraith. “Rather than trying to preserve or hold together a unified Iraq, the U.S. must accept the reality of Iraq’s breakup and work with the Shiites, Kurds, and Sunni Arabs to strengthen the already semi-independent regions.”

    Galbraith further argues that the invasion of Iraq destabilized the Middle East while inadvertently strengthening Iran. One of the administration's intentions in invading Iraq was to undermine Iran, but instead, the Iraqi occupation has given Tehran one of its greatest strategic triumphs in the last four centuries.

    Once considered to be Iraq’s worst enemy, Iran has now created, financed and armed the Shiite Islamic movements within southern Iraq. Since the Iraqi Parliamentary elections of 2005, the Shiites have made considerable political gains and now have substantial influence over the country’s U.S.-created military, its police, and the central government in Baghdad. In addition, Iraq is developing economic ties with Iran that Galbraith believes could soon link the two countries’ strategic oil supplies.

    Galbraith says that, “thanks to George W. Bush, Iran today has no closer ally in the world than the Iraq of the Ayatollahs.” As a result, he argues, sending U.S. forces into Iraq, has in effect, made them hostage to Iran and its Iraqi Shiite allies and left the U.S. without a viable military option to halt Iran’s drive to obtain nuclear weapons.

    A seasoned diplomat, Galbraith served as the first U.S. ambassador to Croatia, where he negotiated the 1995 Erdut Agreement that ended the Croatian war.

    Galbraith fears the United States may have lost the war on the very day it took Baghdad. “The American servicemen and women who took Baghdad were professionals--disciplined, courteous, and task-oriented,” said Galbraith. “Unfortunately, their political masters were so focused on making the case for war, so keen to vanquish their political foes at home, felt certain that Iraqis would embrace American-style democracy, yet they were so blinded by their own ideology that they failed to plan for the most obvious tasks following military victory.”

    Galbraith believes that the Bush Administration’s effort will only leave the U.S. with an open-ended commitment in circumstances of uncontrollable turmoil. In the end, he believes, America’s most important objective is to avoid a worsening civil war.

    “There is no easy exit from Iraq,” said Galbraith. “The alternative, however is to continue the present strategy of trying to build national institutions-displaced in the 2003 invasion-but how can you do that where this now is no longer an existing nation?”
     
  2. tinman

    tinman 999999999
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 1999
    Messages:
    104,405
    Likes Received:
    47,308
    isn't there 3 sects?
    what about the Sufi from Turkey? the whirling dirvish dudes.
    you know there's like a billion sects of christianity
     
  3. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

    Joined:
    May 15, 2000
    Messages:
    28,028
    Likes Received:
    13,051
    I have heard this claim before. It would definitely not surprise me if it were true. It would certainly help explain the lack of tangible contingency plans to handle the aftermath of the initial invasion.
     
  4. ChrisBosh

    ChrisBosh Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2006
    Messages:
    4,326
    Likes Received:
    301
    that's some funny sh*t...he ordered an invasion of a country to 'free the people'...yet he didn't consider the shia/sunni problem...he knew more about there NOT being any WMD than he did about Islam :p That's one good thing.
     
  5. KaiSeR SoZe

    KaiSeR SoZe Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2003
    Messages:
    8,395
    Likes Received:
    39
    thats just embarrassing
     
  6. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    57,795
    Likes Received:
    41,234
    There are several sects or branches of the Muslim religion, as there are in the Christian religion, but there are two main branches of Islam. Bush, surprisingly, considering how much briefing he must have had up until that time, didn't know the main two, and clearly didn't (or doesn't) know the religious situation in Iraq.

    It's the equivilant of a Christian not knowing there are two main branches of Christianity... Catholic and Protestant.

    Rather mind-boggling. He is the President of the United States, and one should expect at least a modicum of knowledge about such things from the man.



    Keep D&D Civil.
     
  7. ima_drummer2k

    ima_drummer2k Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    36,425
    Likes Received:
    9,373
    Who could doubt such a credible source as RAW STORY....
     
  8. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    57,795
    Likes Received:
    41,234
    It's a quote from Former Ambassador to Croatia Peter Galbraith's new book. Raw Story is merely reporting it. You are merely dismissing it. I'm merely believing it.

    And so it goes...



    Keep D&D Civil.
     
  9. ima_drummer2k

    ima_drummer2k Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    36,425
    Likes Received:
    9,373
    I'm not totally dismissing it, but I'm not taking it as the gospel either. It's just funny how people are so quick to instantly believe stories without questioning them, as long as they support their point of view.

    Indeed.
     
  10. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Messages:
    23,992
    Likes Received:
    11,170

    yeah it would explain it if you want to believe no one within the bush admin knew there was more than one sect of islam or that there were divided groups in iraq.

    you are really reaching man.

    the lack of contingency planning was based on the nieve admin that thought you could turn iraq into an america loving western liberal democracy by kicking out saddam.
     
  11. blazer_ben

    blazer_ben Rookie

    Joined:
    May 21, 2002
    Messages:
    6,652
    Likes Received:
    0
    One things for sure, the winner of this mess is the mollahs. now they got there fanaticale buddies in iraq in power to spread there hatefull message.
     
  12. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    46,780
    Likes Received:
    12,350
    As anti-Bush as I am, this is unbelieveable. How could Bush not know that Saddam murdered thousands of Iraqi Shi'ites mostly due to the fact they were Shi'ites? I'm not willing to give Bush much doubt at all, but on this one I do.
     
  13. dc rock

    dc rock Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2001
    Messages:
    7,671
    Likes Received:
    13,523

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    #13 dc rock, Aug 11, 2006
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2006
  14. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

    Joined:
    May 15, 2000
    Messages:
    28,028
    Likes Received:
    13,051

    You think the problems are due to naivete and I think they're due to arrogance and stupidity. Obviously, I'm the one that's reaching.
     
  15. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    59,079
    Likes Received:
    52,748
    Wait - there is more than one branch of Christianity?
     
  16. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    65,261
    Likes Received:
    32,981
    "why don't we send Louis FarraCan over there to talk to them . . in there Language?" - GW Bush

    Rocket River
     
  17. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    45,954
    Likes Received:
    28,049
    Bush: "Of course there's two sects of Islam.
    Male Islamists and female Islamists."
     
  18. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    11,064
    Likes Received:
    8
    You forgot Eastern Orthodox..
     
  19. jo mama

    jo mama Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2002
    Messages:
    14,597
    Likes Received:
    9,111
    thats our bush!

    wasnt there a poll done recently and the majority of americans couldnt find iraq on a map?

    i would bet that those who scream loudest to "nuke em" are the ones who couldnt find it.
     
  20. jo mama

    jo mama Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2002
    Messages:
    14,597
    Likes Received:
    9,111
    the story is quoting former ambassador galbraith. are you saying he didnt say this, and RAW STORY is just making it all up?
     

Share This Page