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AMA- I'm lesbian trans and don't want to indoctrinate your kids....

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by TheJuice, Jun 18, 2022.

  1. TheJuice

    TheJuice Member

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    You too. Keep fighting those Islamic windmills Don Quixote.
     
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  2. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member
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    It's never been an issue with numbers. It's more about whether you can stomach having someone who competed among men, start competing among women's divisions with entirely different standards and records.

    As a competitor, there's likely ambivalent feelings as there are already many physical outliers from within their sex. For spectators, I'd imagine they would question what they're watching, if only for a brief second.

    Numbers wise, it's all random that this would be an issue because athletes who possess both natural and mental gifts are in a very small subset of the population, then you'd have to see if that coincides with the already small trans community, then distinguish that further with men transitioning to women.

    Lisa Thomas not being the best possible trans athlete swimmer for a division among "hers" (when they prefer to be addressed with a different pronoun) does not invalidate that fundamental point.

    How would you feel if Catlyn Jenner decided to transition AND compete after winning medals as Bruce just for the vain possibility of being a unique trivia fact? Or maybe Jenner drops off among men with age but wanted to Promote Awareness (in the most disgustingly self centered way.) The drugs and transitioning could be hell on their body and it would scratch an itch in scientific curiosity...but is your viewpoint willing to accept those results?

    It could be considered "workable" for most of the bell curve, but is it really right and the best of all possible solutions?
     
    #122 Invisible Fan, Jun 24, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2022
  3. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    "Stomaching" something is about feelings not about results. As noted in several sports people transition from different weight classes with different records. Again Lia Thomas hasn't broken any women's WR so even there she falls short.
    And we've already seen already where many successful women athletes who aren't trans have been judged on looks and called not feminine. So that's another prejudice that has nothing to do with athletic performance.
    Lia Thomas is the example everyone brings up and her results are very telling. Yes trans athletes are a very small subset of the population which is more reason why this problem is very overblown.

    You're arguing feelings and supposition but the hard data that we have so far isn't showing that biological women can't compete with trans athletes. Otherwise Lia Thomas would've won every event she entered and in WR time.
    If Caitlyn Jenner wished to compete in Heptathalon (women don't have the Decathalon) I would allow it if I was on the track and field body. Chances are she's not going to place anywhere near the top women and most likely not be able to return to the Olympics given her age. If she wanted to compete in Decathalon again I don't think her results will be anywhere near current top athletes.

    That you're citing though that the transitioning could be hell on the body is more argument that transitioning doesn't preserve biological advantages. While men are on average stronger and taller than women if hormones therapy does affect bone density and musculature. The that might wipe out biological advantages.

    Your post is reiterating that this is about feelings and squeamishness on the part of much of society. My own view is let's look at the actual data as in performance results of trans athletes than rely on supposition.
     
  4. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Trust the process
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  5. LosPollosHermanos

    LosPollosHermanos Pay tucker
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  6. LondonCalling

    LondonCalling Member
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    Reading it, the teen is happier. I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop like a regret from the trans teen who it doesn't appear is even on hormone therapy but wears bras that suppress the appearance of breasts, but that never occurred. The teen is happier despite defiance from the mother to even address her by her preferred name and it seems the mother is mostly upset in that she feels silenced over the healthcare of her daughter's lifestyle choices and the pass the buck attitude of the school to not consider her objections to transitioning, because she fears it could be just a phase. Sounds like back in the old days when it was okay for women to be lesbian until it was finally time to settle down, and get knocked up by a man and come back to her senses that that is how life is supposed to be for her. Good stuff.
     
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  7. LondonCalling

    LondonCalling Member
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  8. LondonCalling

    LondonCalling Member
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  9. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Huh? Lia Thomas went from 554th in the nation in the 200 as a man to 5th as a woman… she also went from ranked 65th in the nation as a man in the 550 to 1st as a woman.

    There really isn’t any authentic debate against the fact that Lia GREATLY benefited from competing against women.

    That is a massive difference and I don’t see how anyone can argue otherwise.
     
  10. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    Except that we have no idea if she remained a man what her ranking would be. A rapid improvement in rankings in amateur athletics isn't unheard of. I had an unranked Judo competitor go to 2nd in the nation in one year.

    Even accepting that. Lia Thomas is still only one data point. You can't say something is definitive based on one data point or even a handful of data points.
     
  11. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D
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    This is an odd statement from the article:

    "The school is not much help. In fact, the school is part of the problem. If my daughter is self-harming or tells them she is very low, they will call me and tell me to access the community mental health services or A&E. They pass the buck."

    If my child was harming his/herself the school better damn well let me know.
     
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  12. AroundTheWorld

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    I agree with you on this @bobrek.

    @bobrek, serious question, are you from Texas originally? If so, why did you decide to move to Florida? How do you like Florida, compared to Texas ? Did you consider California?
     
  13. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D
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    33 years in Houston, 27 years in the Twin Cities. Financially, we did not want to die in MN. While we have a lot of family and lifelong friends in Houston, neither one of us wanted to move back there or to Texas in general.

    Florida was the top place we were thinking about. We took the grandkids to Legoland in 2018. We flew in early and spent time with my wife's cousin. Saw a house 4 houses away from them that checked all the boxes.

    Made an offer, did some dickering and it was accepted. Our 5-10 year plan was moved up 5-10 years.

    Even though my brother lives in San Jose and loves it, that wasn't an option. San Diego was on our list, but things fell into place in Florida unexpectedly.
     
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  14. AroundTheWorld

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    2018 certainly a better time to buy than 2022! Congrats.
     
  15. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Contributing Member

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    That’s for sure. My wife has it in her head she wants to move to Florida, …we been looking at overinflated home prices and dreamcasting a bit..we thought about going back to Houston but naw..I’m kinda ok in Tennessee where my business is doing well but not sure I want to stay here forever as well
     
  16. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member
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    Why do you keep acting like because she did not dominate her sport it makes it ok.

    The Hard data is that she was a mediocre male swimmer and she was ranked much higher as a woman swimmer and won a championship, that's a huge leap.

    What is being overblown?

    Nobody has said she is dominating all women you are creating a strawman.

    What facts are you using?

    What argument have you changed your opinion of?
     
    #136 jiggyfly, Jul 4, 2022 at 2:56 PM
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2022 at 3:03 PM
  17. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member
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    I gave you evidence in the last thread.

    She made a huge leap in the rankings and would not have competed for any men's championship.

    What else do you need to see?

    Why are you so cavalier about the cis women that she supplanted?

    Do they not matter?
     
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  18. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member
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    Just because they reduce these things does not mean they reduce them to the level of women.

    So cis women don't have any urgency in all of this, just **** them hoes?
     
    #138 jiggyfly, Jul 4, 2022 at 3:02 PM
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2022 at 3:16 PM
  19. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    Yeah you have no idea. You never will in that scenario. So if that is the case then you can not give a person that may have an advantage a chance to give someone else a probable disadvantage on a “no idea…”

    I find a debate about this to be one of the most ridiculous ones out there. Females should not have to face this at a high level athletic competition.
     
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  20. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member
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    LOL really?

    All you have to do is compare the times and you can see she would still be a mediocre men's competition swimmer.

    Her 200 times would rank her as a tier 3 swimmer in men's competition that's at the low end and would be mid major just above NAIA.

    Her 500 times would rank her about the same none of those times would have been championship competition worthy. worthy.

    That seems pretty definitive to me.
     

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