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AMA- I'm lesbian trans and don't want to indoctrinate your kids....

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by TheJuice, Jun 18, 2022 at 1:37 AM.

  1. Nook

    Nook Member

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    That has always been the case, 30 years ago people joked that Martina Navratalova was really a man.... Venus Williams has had similar issues.

    I don't doubt any of that, but I don't think that is the biggest injury to high level female athletes, I think competing against trans athletes is a larger concern. I can tell you in the swimming arena they are not happy about it because they have worked their entire lives and suddenly are competing against people they think have an advantage.
     
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  2. TheJuice

    TheJuice Member

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    What's funny is a lot of issues get solved by hormone treatment. I mean, it makes sense on a logical level, you're essentially going through puberty again so your body is restoring itself.

    Also a lot of the drugs prescribed weren't made just for trans people. I take estradiol (designed for menopausal women and people with osteoperosis), finasteride (designed for prostate enlargement and male hair loss) and progesterone. HRT actually reduces the chances for prostate cancer.
     
  3. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I would be surprised if trans people do not have more health issues in general because the drugs are very nasty.

    My physician has compared it to chemo therapy and gastric bypass.
     
  4. TheJuice

    TheJuice Member

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    To play a bit a devil's advocate, all of sports is working your entire life and competing against people they think have an advantage.

    As I said before, Lia Thomas followed all of the rules regarding transitioning. She didn't 'cheat'; she did exactly what the guidelines called for. You can argue for stricter guidelines, but its disingenuous to call it cheating.

    It's also telling that a trans-man swimmer (college level) and a trans-boy wrestler (high school, I think in Texas actually) also got backlash even though they weren't on hormone therapy and were "biologically female"... which indicates this is a little more than just concerns about fair play (as if sports are ever fair to begin with).
     
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  5. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    As I said in the other thread I'm not yet fully convinced trans athletes is as big of a problem that many are painting it to be. While yes it does appear Lia Thomas improved quite a bit in her standings her results weren't exactly dominating given that she most of her races she lost and only made it to the podium in one race at the NCAA championships. Other than that her best showing was 5th. As I said also the trans woman athlete I coached didn't dominate against biological women in her weight class either.

    I'm fine with leagues making their own rules on this but my own feeling is that there still are so few trans athletes out there that we don't know definitively how much of an advantage trans women athletes have and how much of a threat they are to women's sports.

    High level athletics is such a rarified class anyway I don't think it should affect acceptance of trans people in general.
     
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  6. TheJuice

    TheJuice Member

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    Its great cannon fodder for the base though.

    and now every privileged white family can challenge any scholarship because a less feminine looking minority got it.

    Thats the ultimate goal. Make women's sports a beauty pageant.

    Hell, earlier today I told a man (in front of his daughter) he couldnt call his niece sexy.

    Women are right...men are disgusting animals. And I defended that **** way too long.

    The things men said about their DAUGHTERS growing up... holyshit
     
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  7. HTM

    HTM Member

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    It's a big problem for the girls it does effect. We can't just pretend they don't exist and its not a problem.

    Even with Lia Thomas, there are a limited number of spots at the NCAA championships, even just making it might be the highlight of someones long and arduous athletic career and it would be a very big deal to them (and it is a pretty big deal, it's a fantastic sporting accomplishment that relatively few achieve). At least one female athlete got excluded.
     
  8. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Yes but there are far more severe and prevalent problems in this country that don't get anywhere near the coverage that this gets. Why?

    And why is it that the same people when I was younger who kept on making "sammich" jokes and "get back in the kitchen" jokes especially many of my former peers who've had misogynistic takes left and right all of a sudden really REALLY care about women sports?

    Isn't that odd? Maybe they don't sincerely care about it and just use it as a strategy to attack trans folks?
     
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  9. HTM

    HTM Member

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    There are more "severe and prevalent" problems can be used as an excuse to not deal with 90% of problems.

    Because the prevalence of trans athletes in sports only really picked up in the last few years?
     
    #89 HTM, Jun 22, 2022 at 9:05 PM
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2022 at 9:14 PM
  10. TheJuice

    TheJuice Member

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    Again, Lia met the guidelines re: hormones and T levels set by both the NCAA and intl governing boards.

    But now all of the sudden sports are about being fair? And not rewarding physical advantages?
     
  11. TheJuice

    TheJuice Member

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    If trans people succeed at anything (even Jeopardy) its due to some unfair advantage.

    If we fail, its proof were crazy/in need of help.

    Its a lose-lose and will be for a long time
     
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  12. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    This was discussed exhaustively in the other thread but as noted Lia Thomas did meet the standards of being a woman according to the rules of the NCAA. As the rules were concerned a female athlete wasn't excluded.

    As stated I'm OK if the NCAA and other leagues want to change those standareds. That is their perogative. The amount of trans athletes, or really trans people, is still very small compared to the rest of the population. And given that a trans woman was still beaten by several biological woman shows that the advantages might not be as pronounced as people are thinking.
     
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  13. TheJuice

    TheJuice Member

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    I think the backlash to trans men competing with women (usually against their wishes) is proof that it's not about fairness in sports or woman's sports and more of a dislike of trans people in general.
     
  14. AroundTheWorld

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    Bullshit.
     
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  15. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    This is a different topic but the objectification of female athletes has been a problem. It used to be that an argument against having female athletes was that men would look at them with lust so it was immodest for women to do sports. This is still an argument that many Muslim societies make against allowing women to compete.

    As you note the other side is putting judging female athletes primarily on looks. As noted in this thread Lindsay Davenport and Serena Williams have been criticized for not looking femine.
     
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  16. TheJuice

    TheJuice Member

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    Great argument, you really did an excellent job of presenting evidence to the contrary.
     
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  17. AroundTheWorld

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    Kid, as you said, you got coddled too much. Do whatever you think makes you happy, but a man competing with women is not fair to the women. Your statement is bullshit.
     
  18. AroundTheWorld

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    Your self-pity is pathetic.
     
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  19. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    That's seems plausible which is why I would be interested in seeing if there have been any studies done on it.

    Also if that is true that trans people suffer more health problems then that would be a further argument that transitioning doesn't give (or preserve biological) an advantage to athletes.
     
  20. TheJuice

    TheJuice Member

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    Yeah, and as you mentioned earlier now any woman who wins and doesn't look like Maria Sharapova or Mikayla Maroney is going to be questioned if she's trans or not. Especially now that some states like Ohio have made it standard practice to question any athlete's assigned gender at birth.

    Oh your daughter lost a roster spot to a taller muscular girl? Well, time to call up the school board and call that girl trans. Ultimately, the backlash is going to harm both trans people and cis women...but that's also kind of the point.
     

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