Interesting that people have said there were no links to Al Queda in Iraq and then THIS was posted talking about the links between Iraqi terrorists and Al Queda. I wonder what this does to Bush's credibility issue as to terrorist links to Al Queda in Iraq prior to our toppling Saddam? DD
For the Lazy like me... Al-Zarqawi vows allegiance to bin Laden Relationship with al-Qaida leaders had been subject of speculationThe Associated Press Updated: 9:13 a.m. ET Oct. 18, 2004BAGHDAD, Iraq - The militant group led by terror mastermind Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, believed to be behind many deadly attacks in Iraq, has declared its allegiance to Osama bin Laden, citing the need for unity against “the enemies of Islam.” The declaration, which appeared Sunday on a Web site used as a clearinghouse for statements by militant groups, said al-Zarqawi’s Tawhid and Jihad group and al-Qaida had been in communication eight months ago and “viewpoints were exchanged” before the dialogue was interrupted. “God soon blessed us with a resumption in communication, and the dignified brothers in al-Qaida understood the strategy of Tawhid and Jihad,” said the statement, whose authenticity could not be confirmed. The statement ran a Quranic verse encouraging Muslim unity and said al-Zarqawi considered bin Laden “the best leader for Islam’s armies against all infidels and apostates.” The Jordanian-born al-Zarqawi is suspected of about a dozen high-profile attacks in Iraq, including last year’s bombing of the U.N. headquarters in Baghdad, and the beheading of numerous foreign hostages. His relationship to bin Laden and the al-Qaida leadership has long been the subject of considerable speculation. Although many experts believe al-Zarqawi had longtime ties to al-Qaida, others suspected that al-Zarqawi considered himself a rival to bin Laden for the mantle of chief defender of the Muslim faith. Looking for confirmation The Bush administration said it was still trying to confirm the report. “But we’ve always said there were ties between Zarqawi and al-Qaida, which underscores once again why Iraq is the central front in the war on terror,” White House spokesman Trent Duffy said in Washington. “It’s also proof positive of why the president’s firm resolve to fight terrorists overseas so we don’t face them in America’s neighborhoods is the only clear way to prevail.” The statement affirmed the “allegiance of Tawhid and Jihad’s leadership and soldiers to the chief of all fighters, Osama bin Laden.” It said the announcement had been timed for the start of the Islamic holy month of Ramadan when “Muslims need more than ever to stick together in the face of the religion’s enemies.” The statement also endorsed bin Laden’s goal to “expel the infidels from the Arabian peninsula” — a reference to American influence in the al-Qaida leader’s native Saudi Arabia, birthplace of the Islamic faith. Indicted in Jordan Al-Zarqawi’s declaration appeared two days after the U.S. government formally declared his Tawhid and Jihad a terrorist organization. The listing imposes several restrictions on the group, including a ban on travel to the United States and a freeze on the group’s assets in U.S. banks. Al-Zarqawi also was indicted in absentia Sunday in his native Jordan along with 12 other alleged Muslim militants on charges of plotting a chemical attack that could have killed thousands of people. Al-Zarqawi and three of the others will be tried in absentia on charges including conspiring to commit terrorism, possessing and manufacturing explosives and affiliation with a banned group, according to the 24-page indictment made available Sunday to The Associated Press. U.S. and Iraqi officials believe al-Zarqawi’s movement is centered in the insurgent stronghold of Fallujah, where U.S. troops clashed Sunday with militants. However, Tawhid and Jihad banners have been seen recently in Samarra, Ramadi and even on the streets of the Iraqi capital, Baghdad. It appeared the announcement was aimed at enabling al-Zarqawi, who has a background as a common criminal, to profit from bin Laden’s stature among radical Muslims. Bin Laden, believed to be hiding in Afghanistan or in the border areas of Pakistan, has faded somewhat from public view and recent declarations by al-Qaida’s leadership have been made by his deputy, Ayman al-Zawahri. DD
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A CIA report has found no conclusive evidence that former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein harbored Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, which the Bush administration asserted before the invasion of Iraq. "There's no conclusive evidence the Saddam Hussein regime had harbored Zarqawi," a U.S. official said on Tuesday about the CIA findings. But the official, speaking on condition of anonymity, stressed that the report, which was a mix of new information and a look at some older information, did not make any final judgments or come to any definitive conclusions. "To suggest the case is closed on this would not be correct," the official said in confirming an ABC News story about the CIA report that the network said was delivered to the White House last week. ABC quoted an unnamed senior U.S. official as saying that the CIA document raises "serious questions" about Bush administration assertions that Zarqawi found sanctuary in pre-war Baghdad. "The official says there is no clear cut evidence that Saddam Hussein even knew Zarqawi was in Baghdad," ABC reported. The CIA report concludes Zarqawi was in and out of Baghdad, but cast doubt on reports that Zarqawi had been given official approval for medical treatment there as President Bush said this summer, ABC said. Earlier on Tuesday, White House spokesman Scott McClellan reasserted that there was a relationship between Saddam and Zarqawi. "He was in contact from Baghdad with Ansar al-Islam in the northeastern part of Iraq. He had a cell operating from Baghdad during that period, as well. So there are clearly ties between Iraq and -- between the regime, Saddam Hussein's regime and al Qaeda," McClellan told reporters. Before last year's invasion to topple Saddam, the Bush administration portrayed Zarqawi as al Qaeda's link to Baghdad. Following Saddam's capture in December and waves of suicide attacks on U.S. and Iraqi security forces which followed, Zarqawi quickly became America's top enemy in Iraq. The United States placed a $25 million bounty on his head. The Jordanian-born Zarqawi and his militant Tawhid and Jihad group have claimed responsibility for a string of suicide bombings, kidnappings and hostage beheadings. link So what we have now is: Zarqawi has links to Al-Queda and... Zarqawi is now believe to be in Iraq and has been there before so... Iraq has ties to Al-Queda. WHOA. This subtlety is brilliant. See how the administration is taking a situation NOW and using it to say that Iraq has ties to Al-Queda to justify going to war. They are using a present tense truth to justify a past tense invasion of Iraq. This framing is the same way that they can say Al-Queda and 9-11 and Saddam in the same sentence and hypnotize the American public into think there are all the same.
Mulder that is precisely my point. The question I am asking is how does this effect the general public and the election? Most people will not figure out that Saddam's government had no ties, but they will think that Iraq and the government are the same when discussing ties to Al Queda. I think it helps Bush. DD
The State Department, CIA, 911 commission, Donald Rumsfeld, and Colin Powell have all confirmed that there is no evidence detailing a cooperative relationship between AQ & Sadaam. Who knows? New evidence may come, but Zarqawi pledging aleigance to OBL certianly isn't it. This changes nothing. Mulder is saying that the White House is twisting this to say that present events justify the invasion, when in the past these events were not the case. The invasion created the opportunity for terrorists to operate, not the other way around. Question- if you're still holding out for new evidence to link AQ and Sadaam, how can you hold the Commander in Chief to such low standards? When he launches an invasion, shouldn't he already have concrete evidence instead of finding it two, three, four years later?
Question 1: Where was Zarqawi based prior to iRaq? Question 2: Why did he leave? Question 3: When did Zarqawi arrive in iRaq? Question 4: When did the US invade? Questions 67&68: How can you claim iraq had no ties to terrorism and the case is closed?
Let's use this logic in another case. Question 1: Where were the 9/11 hijackers prior to their death? Question 2: Why did they leave? Question 3: When did they arrive in the U.S.? Question 4: When did the U.S. know that some of these hi-jackers were on watchlists? Question 67&68? If you suppose that being in a country that knows someone is a terrorist is a proof of a connection, then the U.S. must be suspected of having ties to terrorism themselves right?
Zarqawi himself has been on the run for years. But his wife and four children still live in a two-storey house on the edge of [Zarqa, Jordan]. His brother-in-law Saleh al-Hami also lives across the road. He was eager to put the record straight about his notorious relative. Zarqawi is a good man, he insisted, a good Muslim, who has gone to Iraq out of principle to fight the American-led occupation. This rough town provided inauspicious roots for a man the Americans credit with leading a large part of the Iraqi resistance. When he was in his teens, it seemed that Zarqawi was destined for a life of petty crime. He was known as a bit of a thug, a lowlife. But while few claim Zarqawi is a great intellectual, it appears he does have the ability to lead: the ability to persuade, or to bully, others to follow him. "He is a leader, he is strong, straight to the point, with a very strong personality," says Leith Shubeilat, an Islamic activist imprisoned with Zarqawi in the 1990s. What sounds like an obsessive personality gradually turned Zarqawi from crime to the more dangerous pursuit of radical Islam, with its fiery mix of religion and politics. He travelled to Pakistan and Afghanistan, although his relationship with Osama Bin Laden is disputed. In 1993, Zarqawi was arrested in Jordan, after the authorities discovered rifles and bombs stashed in his house. In the next years in prison, he turned to learning the Koran by heart. Then in 1999, he was released by the Jordanians as part of a general amnesty. The war in Iraq was just the opportunity he was looking for to harness his fanatical beliefs. He is now believed personally to have carried out several of the recent, brutal, videotaped executions. Though Zarqawi has become a mystery figure, unseen except in those gruesome videos. Supporters Zarqawi's brother-in-law, Saleh al-Hami, had no apologies for the recent violence or kidnappings, such as the holding of the British man Ken Bigley. "Why are the British worried about this one man, and not about the thousands of Iraqis who have been killed or injured?" asked Mr al-Hami. Iraqis have been killed too, says Zarqawi's brother-in-law Most ordinary Jordanians I spoke to in Zarqa insisted they did not support the current wave of kidnappings. But they did point to that same double standard. "All the people here in Jordan and the Middle East are against kidnapping the foreigners," said one man I spoke to outside a newspaper shop in Zarqa. "Our religion does not want these things to happen in Iraq." "But all the people want to dismiss Americans and British from Iraq, because Iraq is an Arabic country. "The foreigners, they killed more people than the kidnappers. The American jets killed 200 or 300 daily." Zarqawi cannot claim many followers in Jordan, though government buildings here are heavily fortified against any possible attacks from him or other Muslim militants. But people here do understand what drives him, and most ordinary people I spoke to shared his hatred for America's occupation of Iraq and support for Israel. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3691548.stm From another article: Bin Laden rival? Zarqawi's network is considered the main source of kidnappings, bomb attacks and assassination attempts in Iraq. Although he is thought to have links with al-Qaeda, experts regard his group as autonomous - perhaps even a rival to Osama Bin Laden's organisation. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3483089.stm
So the fact that Zarqawi slipped into Iraq in 2002 for medical treatment somehow equals a link between Saddam and Al-Queda, even though it has been reported that Zarqawi and bin Laden may be rivals and Saddam may not have even known he was there. By that logic we should have invaded Saudi Arabia or Jordan or Iran or Germany or Spain the United States for that matter.
so basso is under the logic that japan's attack on pearl harbor was legit. we we're friends with Japan's enemies, and after they attacked us we were their enemy and joined with their enemies.
Are you trying to say that the US is full of self-loathing? Isn't it different if the nation in question is an enemy? Isn't that just too obvious?
Iraq was an enemy of Al-Qaeda. The U.S. was also an enemy of Al-Qaeda. Both had members of Al-Qaeda living there. This doesn't prove that either of them had connections to Al-Qaeda
the U.S put both Bin Laden in power....and that Madman Hussain guy in as well...seems like the U.S would know if those two were sleeping together... it is the rest of the public that is lost. cause the truth is somewhere where we'll never find out. ... Abu Musab al-Zarqawi...should be taken out regardless the guy' is nuttz!
