I'm starting to see your point of view Treeman. Let's just go in & kill them all. They're obviously, too stupid to know when they've been whipped. http://apnews.excite.com/article/20020302/D7I01SI00.html Afghans: al-Qaida, Taliban Regrouping Email this Story 03/01/2002 7:35 PM EST By KATHY GANNON GARDEZ, Afghanistan (AP) - Al-Qaida and Taliban fighters are regrouping in the mountains of eastern Paktia province and just over the border in Pakistan, urging the faithful to wage holy war against U.S. forces, Afghan officials say. Some Afghan and Western sources estimate the number of al-Qaida fighters alone remaining in this country at 4,000 to 5,000. Many of them are believed to be here in Paktia and other provinces along the Pakistan border. They are receiving support from a variety of groups, including Kashmiri separatists, Islamic militants in Pakistan and some former officials of Pakistan's intelligence service, the sources said on condition of anonymity. "We have Chechens, Arabs, Pakistanis in the mountains," Ziarat Gul Mangal, deputy intelligence chief of Paktia province, told The Associated Press as he gestured toward the sun-drenched mountains to the east. Mangal said at least one pocket of fighters, including Chechens, Arabs and Afghans, were recently discovered in the mountains near Gardez. "They had just started to reorganize there," Mangal said without giving any numbers. But he added: "We found weapons, a lot of weapons." U.S. officials in Afghanistan consistently refuse to discuss details of American operations against al-Qaida and Taliban remnants three months after the hardline militia's nationwide rule collapsed. However, U.S. Special Forces and other covert troops are known to operating in Paktia province, a rugged area south of the capital Kabul. Even before the Taliban collapsed under the relentless U.S. air bombardment and attacks by the U.S.-backed northern alliance, Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar had threatened to withdraw to the mountains, regroup and launch a guerrilla war. "What can you do to us? We are not a national army to stop us," Omar said during the bombing campaign. "We are guerrillas. We will go to the mountains. We will fight you from there." Afghan sources, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Omar is on the move between Maruf in southeastern Afghanistan to Ghazni southwest of Kabul and in the Sharan region of Paktika province, which borders Paktia to the south. As they regroup, Taliban and al-Qaida remnants are trying to encourage Afghans here to join in a new jihad, or "holy war," against the Americans and their allies, according to local residents. "Our society is illiterate and most people don't understand," Mangal said. "hey are telling people that first Russia attacked Islam and once again Wstern countries are attacking Islam and Islam is at risk." Several Afghans told of pamphlets being distributed in various provinces of the east and south urging holy war call, although local officials had none when asked. Such pamphlets, called "shabnama" or "night letters" because they circulate covertly, were used by U.S.-backed rebels during the war against Soviet occupiers in the 1980s. "In some parts around here, the Taliban 'tableeqi'(missionaries) say 'All mujahedeen, northern alliance and everyone, should unite together against America,'" said Dr. Najib, a physician at Gardez General Hospital. He said the provinces of Paktia and adjacent Paktika were "the worst place for all these people, Taliban and al Qaida, because all of them escaped this way" after the fall of Kabul and other cities last year. "In the mountains along the border, there are many of them," he said. One Afghan source, who asked not to be identified, said former Taliban leaders have made contact with anti-Taliban commanders urging them to turn their weapons on U.S. forces and international peacekeepers. Mangal claimed the renegades were still receiving help from Pakistan's intelligence service. Pakistan has repeatedly denied the claim. Pakistan was the principal supporter of the Taliban until President Pervez Musharraf abandoned them following the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and threw his support to the United States. Mangal and others said the Taliban and al-Qaida were also receiving help from Pakistani-based Islamic militants of Jaish-e-Mohammed, Lashkar-e-Tayyaba and Sipah-e-Sahaba - all currently outlawed in Pakistan. A former Taliban official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said former senior officials of Pakistan's intelligence service met recently with a major Taliban commander, Jalaluddin Haqqani, in northwestern Pakistan where he has taken refuge. Haqqani, who was backed by the United States during the war against the Soviets, was close to al-Qaida. U.S. bombers pounded his cave complexes in the Zawar area of Paktia province in January. Both Mangal and anti-Taliban commander Ismail Khan, whose soldiers are working with U.S Special Forces, also reported the meeting between Haqqani and the Pakistanis. "There are many big Taliban in Pakistan, just on the border," Khan said. They send money and equipment to Taliban and al-Qaida fighters, Khan said. Khan claimed that the Taliban's former deputy prime minister, Mullah Abdul Qabir, recently sent radios to his loyal followers inside Afghanistan.
Yeah....and then we bomb them all and they turn out to be normal civilians/villagers who are innocent victims . Then, our government says these are valid targets but the people in that area cry foul. Finally, after a few weeks of investigation, they were villagers collecting scrap metal. Good grief! I hope they get it right this time.
Hottoddie: My view is not "let's go in and kill them all", more along the lines of "let's go in and kill the bad guys"... But at least you're coming to the realization that people need to be killed here. That's a start... (or , however you want to look at it) Before we began operations in Afghanistan, best estimates of Taliban strength put their force at anywhere from 40,000 to 55,000 or so. Probably close to 45,000 or so in reality. We killed/captured approximately 10,000 of those, and another 15,000 or so defected and are now our "friends". That leaves about 20,000 or so that just disappearred into the countryside, merged with the populace, or fled over the border into Pakistan... We did not get rid of them all at Mazar-I-Sharif, Khost, or any of the other set-battles we've heard about. Many pockets of resistance remain. I do think it's safe to say that the Taliban/Al Qaeda have been whittled down to a relatively few dedicated survivors/fighters, though, and it is only a matter of time before they are destroyed. There have been pockets where they have tried to regroup, but we have generally found out about them and blasted them to hell. There are going to continue to be pockets of resistance for a while - we are not going to be able to bring the boys home yet. It's a chaotic situation there. The main problem is the border with Pakistan. The Pashtun population there is full of Taliban supporters, and could conceivably be a base of operations for Taliban raids for years to come. As for the cases where we have ended up attacking "friendly" forces there, they are actually relatively few and far between. They are also the only bombing raids you hear about anymore (although there is still alot of fighting going on). Usually it is not so much a case of mistaken identity on our part, but a case of one tribe getting revenge on another tribe by feeding us bad information. We do need to be more careful there, and we should be skeptical of any information we recieve that does not come directly from Karzai's people. He seems to be the only one who's on the level there... But the war there will continue until all pockets of resistance - including the sanctuaries in Pakistan - have been neutralized, one way or another (eventually, the Pakistanis might decide to clean their own house). You might not hear much about it on the evening news, but the bombing will continue.
No prob. I know alot of people here think I'm a genocidal maniac... Just trying to clear that impression up wherever I can.
