Afghanistan. A wasted 6 years?

rodrick_98 · Sep 29, 2007

i realize they're not taking complete power, but they're gaining more control. bully style.

Afghan president offers Taliban position in government

By JASON STRAZIUSO
Associated Press

KABUL, Afghanistan — A Taliban suicide bomber wearing an Afghan army uniform set off a huge explosion today while trying to board a military bus in the capital, killing 30 people, most of them soldiers, officials said. Hours later, the Afghan president offered to meet personally with the Taliban leader for peace talks and give the militants a position in government.

Meanwhile, an Afghan official said today that four kidnapped workers from the International Committee of the Red Cross have been released.

Strengthening a call for negotiations he has made with increasing frequency the past several weeks, President Hamid Karzai said he was willing to meet with Taliban leader Mullah Omar and Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, a former prime minister and factional warlord leader.

"If I find their address, there is no need for them to come to me, I'll personally go there and get in touch with them," Karzai said. "Esteemed Mullah, sir, and esteemed Hekmatyar, sir, why are you destroying the country?"

Karzai said he has contacts with Taliban militants through tribal elders but that there are no direct and open government communication channels with the fighters.

"If a group of Taliban or a number of Taliban come to me and say, 'President, we want a department in this or in that ministry or we want a position as deputy minister ... and we don't want to fight anymore... If there will be a demand and a request like that to me, I will accept it because I want conflicts and fighting to end in Afghanistan," Karzai said.

"I wish there would be a demand as easy as this. I wish that they would want a position in the government. I will give them a position," he said.

Karzai earlier this month renewed a call for talks with the Taliban, and a spokesman for the militant group initially said the fighters might be open to negotiations. But spokesman Qari Yousef Ahmadi later said foreign troops must first leave the country — a demand Karzai said today he would not meet.

"It should be very clear until all our roads are paved, until we have good electricity and good water, and also until we have a better Afghan national army and national police, I don't want any foreigners to leave Afghanistan," he said.

He said he still wanted negotiations with Taliban militants of Afghan origin "for peace and security." He ruled out talks with al-Qaida and other foreign fighters.

NATO and the United Nations have said an increasing number of Taliban fighters are interested in laying down their arms. NATO's ambassador to Afghanistan, Daan Everts, said this month that NATO would look into the possibility of talks.

More than 4,500 fighters have taken part in a two-year reconciliation process, but the Taliban have launched more than 100 suicide attacks this year, a record pace.

today's explosion ripped off the roof of the bus and tore out its sides, leaving a charred hull of burnt metal. It was reminiscent of the deadliest insurgent attack in Afghanistan since the U.S.-led invasion in 2001 — when a bomber boarded a police academy bus at Kabul's busiest transportation hub in June and killed 35 people.

Dozens of civilians and police officers searched for bodies. Police and soldiers climbed trees to retrieve some body parts. Nearby businesses also were damaged.

"For 10 or 15 seconds, it was like an atom bomb — fire, smoke and dust everywhere," said Mohammad Azim, a police officer who witnessed the explosion.

Karzai said 30 people were killed — 28 soldiers and two civilians. The Health Ministry said another 30 were wounded.

"It was a terrible tragedy, no doubt an act of extreme cowardice," Karzai said. "Whoever did this was against people, against humanity, definitely against Islam. A man who calls himself Muslim will not blow up innocent people in the middle of Ramadan," the Muslim holy month.

A purported Taliban spokesman, Zabiullah Mujahid, claimed the militant group was responsible for the blast in a text message to the Associated Press. Mujahid said the bomber was a Kabul resident named Azizullah.

The bus had stopped in front of a movie theater to pick up soldiers when a bomber wearing a military uniform tried to board around 6:45 a.m. local time, army spokesman Gen. Mohammad Zahir Azimi said.

"Typically there are people checking the IDs of soldiers who want to board the bus," Azimi said. "While they were checking the IDs the bomber tried to get on the bus and blew himself up there."

The theater, a restaurant and a pharmacy were among several shops that were badly damaged. A woman who lives nearby was woken up by the explosion, which shattered her bedroom window, cutting her feet. The blast's force sprayed a chunk of scalp onto a nearby rooftop.

Sulahdin, an army officer at the scene who goes by one name, said about 50 people were on the bus. Adbul Karim, a witness, said several people in the back of the vehicle survived.

Associated Press reporters Rahim Faiez, Amir Shah and Alisa Tang contributed to this report.
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http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5174768.html

Ottomaton · Sep 30, 2007

My first impression is that this is more proof that war can not be won if it doesn't end with a political solution. For all 6 of these years, we have been beating the Taliban like a rented mule. But as long as some back-woods idiot bumpkin thinks his politics are the will of God, and that he can either fight or become a slave of the Western Crusaders, the war can continue. The key is to make the option of continuing to fight be really unpleasant, but at the same time, hold out some sort of carrot for the rebels to come in out of the cold.

I just quickly browsed through the bios of the Chancellors and Presidents of West Germany after WWII, from 1949-1990. At least 1/3 had some sort of connection to the NDASP or the Wehrmacht at one point.

If the Taliban agrees to put aside absolutism and totalitarianism and work as part of a representative democracy, that strikes me as about as close to a total victory as possible. If the bad guys start acting like good guys, are they really still bad guys?

If they are willing to play the political game, then let them in and stop the fighting. Once they get sucked in and decide to become part of the system, they've defeated themselves. The IRA was bombing the crap out of stuff in Northern Ireland right up until they decided to negotiate.

On the other hand, if you lock out the Taliban perminantly from the system, people will still be hunting them down in caves 75 years from now because they have nowhere else to go.

ymc · Oct 1, 2007

Ottomaton said:

My first impression is that this is more proof that war can not be won if it doesn't end with a political solution.
Click to expand...

Maybe we don't even want to win? Maybe we just want a permanent base there? I don't think we want to win in Iraq either but that's for another thread.

If they are willing to play the political game, then let them in and stop the fighting. Once they get sucked in and decide to become part of the system, they've defeated themselves.
Click to expand...

Why would they want to join the mayor of Kabul's government when they have the half of the country under control?

DaDakota · Oct 1, 2007

If you want to see why any war over there has little chance of success, just watch Lawrence of Arabia...nothing has changed.

DD

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