To Sleep Perchance to Dream: I have such mixed emotions with the Olajuwon situation. On one hand, I want him to go out on a good note with one more farewell season. On the other hand, I don't know just how good that would be for the Rockets as a team. This season certainly was a nightmare, but next season could be just as bad and could leave the team with the highest priced injured list ever. I love the guy and I want the Rockets to do the right thing, but, if it causes the team to struggle, is that really the right thing to do and would Olajuwon really want to end his career as a 16-million-dollar bench warmer? Tough questions and no easy answers. The Wiz: Ease on Down the Road Walt Williams has had a great run at the end of this season, but nothing is set in stone. A guy like him (veteran, good shooter, etc) could be an invaluable trade commodity. I don't think the Rockets want to let him go, but "pencil-ing him in" for the three might be a bit premature. Getting to the Point Let's set the record straight on Steve Francis. He IS a point guard. Period. Whether you like it or not, the Rockets are committed to playing him at the point - no exceptions. Most point guards take 3 years to develop and he already has better skills than most after only one year. Is he a prototypical point guard? Nope. But, the point guard spot is being redefined every year with more athletic players and they are being asked to score more. A great player is a great player. Just because he plays the "point" does not mean he has to fill the same role we've come to expect from the point guard position. The Chicago Bulls teams never had a prototype point - Pippen played "point forward" but it didn't effect them because the system didn't require it. Front-court and Center With all the noise about Cato and Thomas, I thought it should be said that we have no real basis for determining their overall abilities at this point. Carroll Dawson and Larry Smith have been instrumental in developing the games of Olajuwon, Otis Thorpe and others in the low post. They are regarded as two of the best big man developers in the league. No question Cato and Thomas need work, but we have only seen limited raw abilites with no real skill attached at playing the post. If they still struggle next year or if the Rockets see little development from them over the summer, then we have reason to be concerned. The Heart of a Champion The Rockets have done a very good job re-building the team, but it ain't over. They still have more pieces to the puzzle. Anyone who honestly believes they have a shot at contending as soon as next season or the season after is suffering from dillusions. Short of acquiring Tim Duncan, the Rockets have at least 2 seasons of growing to do. Most of the best players really begin to find their niche around their late 20's reaching their peaks around 30. Francis, Mobley, Anderson, Cato, et al still have a ways to go. It doesn't mean they won't compete for the playoffs. They can be one of the top 8 teams in the west even by next season, but it will take more to get them all the way to the finals again and not just necessarily players. The need more time together and more experience. We just have to be patient with them. Think of this scenario: It's 2003 and a new arena has just opened downtown and the Rockets are legitimate title contenders on their way to a deep playoff run. Gives me goosebumps! ------------------ "No one gets out ALIVE!" SaveOurRockets.com
Hmmm, for some reason, I saw the topic "whole lotta yadda yadda" and thought you were calling out francisandbarkleyrule...oh well.. 1) If what you say is true and the Rockets ARE three or four years away from being a contender, then I don't see the harm in giving Dream a farewell tour. Someone said that if he retires, his salary still counts against the salary cap, and no sane GM would ever trade for a 37 year old center with respiratory problems making $16 million a year. Besides, he could be an excellent mentor for Kato, Thomas, Rogers, or WHOEVER our main center/PF is next year. Besides, he could sell out a few road games next year and all the other teams could have a "Come see Hakeem Olajuwon in his final game at (insert arena name here)" night 2) I think Walt Williams is Vernon Maxwell without the attitude...There is not a more potent weapon in the NBA than a guy who is hot from the outside, and when Walt Williams is on, the dude is on. If he only wins 8-10 games next year after a blistering night from the outside, he's worth his salary... 3) I really don't like separating guys into categories like "point guard" and "shooting guard" I think it really has gotten down to a height thing. Every guy 6'3" and under is labeled a "point guard" and guys 6'4"-6'6" are labeled "shooting guards", with a few exceptions (Iverson). What is Francis?? He's a damn good basketball player that handles the ball like a yo-yo, has a quick first step, and could touch the ceiling if he wanted... 4) From what I've seen, Thomas has delevoped a little better in the low post than Cato. He has a quick spin move to the middle, and a 10-12 foot jumper. Cato gets most of his buckets on back picks and ally oops, but he could get 12 boards a night if he wanted... 5) I'll wait until we get a new arean, THEN we can talk about a few more banners being hung from the new ceiling....How about we call the new crib the "Dream Center", named after Hakeem!! ANYBODY can put a statue of their all time best player in front of a new arena, but not many cities have the guts to name their new building after a player... A-Train ------------------ Does anybody have a cool idea for a signature?? [This message has been edited by A-Train (edited April 16, 2000).]
Good post Jeff. I agree, patience is needed and the future does look very bright indeed. Francis, Mobley and Shandon form a nice nucleus from which to build upon. The book is still out on Cato. I hope CD and Larry Smith can work with him and help him be more consistent on offense. He is very athletic, but seems uncomfortable on offense unless its a dunk. KT takes way too many 3's for a PF. He needs to be in the paint banging and drawing fouls. Last but not least, The Rockets, as a team, need to concentrate more on playing a team defense. Helping each other out. Be aware of where the ball is at all times, don't turn your back to the ball, switch to help a teamate who has been beaten. There doesn't seem to be a lot of commitment on the defensive end and this has cost the Rockets in quite a few games this year. I hope Francis, Mobley and Shandon can stay together. If so, when the new arena opens, they should be in their prime, and we can add to the 2 world championship banners we already have.
Jeff, I agree with most of what you said, except two things: How has Carroll Dawson and Larry Smith been instrumental in developing the games of Hakeem and OT? Hakeem averaged 20.6 pts and 11.9 rebs in his rookie season, and OT was a 20pt/10reb man himself the year before he became a Rocket. And, if you don't count them (b/c how can you?), then who have they developed? On Olajuwon and next year. There is more than one reason that Hakeem should be allowed to play next year, and be spared belittling remarks from fans. 1. People don't like to hear about the past, especially nowadays. But, the truth is he has put his entire career into the Rockets. Many years he did it while being paid far less than he was worth. 2. We do not yet know who the Rockets will pick up in the off-season. On the off hand chance we get Duncan, I think Dream could produce at or near the level of D. Robinson lately. That is, of course, if he can get his bronchial problems taken care of. 3. Many fans, including myself, want to see him go out better than he has this season. I'm not a huge Barkley fan, but even I was upset at the early end to his career. And, I understand the loss I and other fans suffered for not having the chance to see him play an entire season. 4. He's a great basketball player and a great man. He deserves respect. The Rockets have never had to worry about off the court problems with Hakeem, because there never were any. He is most likely the greatest player the Rockets will ever have. It's not like he's Otis Thorpe (6.5 yrs), Mario Elie (5 yrs), Ralph Sampson (3.5 yrs?), or any number of other players. He IS the Rockets. At least he has been since the day he joined the team back in 1984. I really don't think it should be a question of should Hakeem come back to finish his contract and career. It should be a question of whether it will be enjoyable for the fans or not. I hope Hakeem stays relatively healthy for next season, and I hope he plays relatively well. But, even if he doesn't, I will still enjoy watching the man play until the day comes when I know I'll never get to see him on the court in a Rocket uni again...... and that will be a sad sad day. Even sadder than the day my beloved Oilers left. Not as sad as losing a loved one, but one of the saddest days of my life notheless. If that "Do You Guys Ever Cry" thread is still on Clutch's server by that time, I'll post and let you guys how much (not if) I cried. ------------------ I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem.
DREAMer, Numbers 1, 3, & 4 are really one reason for your argument. Now with respect to number 2, you are smoking scraps from Hakeem's old jock straps if you think that Hakeem could put up Robinson-esque numbers next season if we acquire Duncan. Seriously, Hakeem is 36 (?), has health problems (atrial fibrilation, respiratory problems, bad wheels, etc.). There is no reason to seriously believe that Dream can do as you claim, at least IMHO. Now with respect to numbers 1, 3, & 4, they are valis arguments. But come on, does Dream really care about the Rockets? I think if he did, he'd do everything he could to help us win-including retiring or taking a 50% paycut to clear up cap space so we can gop after a stud free-agent (I heard that if he takes a 50% paycut that we'd free up cap space). Dream remembers only the glory days. Even in recent interviews, he has stated that he should be the man on the team if for no other reason than the fact that he plays center. Bull****. Dream needs to step aside for the benefit of the team. I am not in favor of forcing hi to do it, but I do think that it would be in the best interests of the team now and in the future if Hakeem would do what it takes for us to win-take a paycut and help us get a good freeagent, play a limited role, and quit hallucinating that he's a primary option. I'm sure that you don't like anything that I said, but at least consider this: is Hakeem really concerned about the Rockets or himself?
P1 S2, Arguments 1, 3, & 4 are not the same argument. 1. He played cheap, the Rockets owe him the money 3. Many fans like myself want him to go out with a better season than this year. 4. He's the greatest sports hero in Houston history, he deserves it. How are those the same? They all say he deserves it, but for different reasons. Here's another question: Are we going to be contending for the NBA Championship next year? I don't think there are too many people that realistically think we will. So, isn't it the perfect senario for Hakeem to play out the string? I could see how some fans might be upset if the Dream was hurting our chances to make a run at a title, but he's not, so get over it. "Now with respect to number 2, you are smoking scraps from Hakeem's old jock straps if you think that Hakeem could put up Robinson-esque numbers next season if we acquire Duncan." If healthy do I think Hakeem can average about 17 pts, 9 rebs, 2 blks, 1 stl? Yes sir, I do. You might want to lay of the "smoking scraps of jock straps" comments... someone might take offense to that. ------------------ I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem. [This message has been edited by DREAMer (edited April 17, 2000).]
Pass1st....at no time during his exemplary stay in our great city has Hakeem ever acted more concerned with himself than the team...if you look-up Teamplayer in the dictionary..you would see a pic of the Dream. that statement,along with the jock-strap comment was totally uncalled for. Whether or not he can put up Robinson numbers next year is Totally beside the point. What is the point is that: The Dream has been the Rockets for as long as most of us can remember. He does not deserve to be treated in any manner other than the best by the Rockets and the fans because of the above reason. [/list=a] What other member of any team is as highly respected by the players and fans of just about EVERY team in the NBA?? maybe MJ.... To boil it down to one statement... We have had the pleasure of having the classiest,hardworking,talented players in the league on our team,he deserves nothing but respect from EVERY TRUE ROCKETS FAN!! nuff said.... ------------------ The Playoffs will suck with no Rockets in them!! Go Rockets
Dreamer and Rockets2k, I meant what I said about smoking Hakeem's jock as a pun, not an insult; but I see y'alls side and respect it-I'm sorry. But my question remains the same: have either of you noticed Hakeem's comments this season where he has proclaimed that he's still the man, the the offense should center around him, me-me-me, etc. Sure, he wants the team to do well, but he can't let '93-'94 and '94-'95 go. As soon as they find a cure for aging and general denegration of health, then Hakeem could perform like Robinsion. But know this: when Duncan has slipped, Robinson has put up Duncan numbers. If our stud goes down, can Hakeem be counted on to carry the team? Nope, at least consistently. Again, I do not think that Dream should be forced out. He can start, as long as he doesn't play too much (25 minutes should keep him fresh and productive). I seriously doubt that Hakeem can live up to your expectations. Obviously, Hakeem will be a touchy subject until he retires. But I do not want to see Hakeem hurt the team on his way out. Do either of you see that possibility?
Holy crap! I actually agree with DREAMer! *marks calender to commemorate event* Okay, to anyone who thinks Dream should retire next year and take a 50% paycut "for the good of the team" . . . well, let's just say there are about 8 million little reasons why he shouldn't. There is a difference in loyalty and stupidity. Loyalty is playing harder (barring further health issues) and being the veteran leader that this team needs. Stupidity is giving up $8 million dollars. That's like saying, "Gee, I won the lotto, but my family always told me gambling is wrong. I guess I'd better be loyal to them and not take the money." ------------------ [This message has been edited by Launch Pad (edited April 17, 2000).] [This message has been edited by Launch Pad (edited April 17, 2000).]
Launch Pad, That's a fair assessment. But I was being hypothetical, like in a situation where the team could acquire Duncan. That paycut would be crucial in that situation, unless we were ready to break up Francis, Mobley and Anderson (obviously Francis would stay). But that's only half my point. Be it through frustration or stubborness, Hakeem has made self-serving comments about himself this season-all urging that he should be the focal point of the offense, that he's still the man, etc. I think that he deserves tons of respect here in Houston and the rest of the NBA cities. But if we had the opportunity to get Duncan, I'd like to see Hakeem help us get the deal done. Barkley took a paycut, why can't Hakeem?
We need a capologist in here, but I'm not sure that Dream's $8 mil would free up enough cap space to make a serious run at Duncan anyway (we're waaaaay over the cap). That means that the only real shot we have at TD is via trade (in which case, Dream's retirment wouldn't make a bit of difference). I disagree with you here. Hakeem made those "self-serving comments" at the beginning of the year; that's true. In the second half of the year, however, he has admitted that this is Francis' team and has taken a smaller role. As for the Chuckster, well he took a pay-cut out of vanity. He saw the pay-cut as an opportunity to get Pippen here and finally get his oh-so-elusive championship ring (bet he feels stupid now (ah, hindsight . . . *sigh*)). I'd say the "good of the team" was second to the good of himself in making his decision. Hakeem, on the other hand, already has 2 rings, so, again, he would just be stupid not to collect his full contract after being underpaid by the Rockets for so long. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Launch Pad (edited April 17, 2000).]
Barkley never really took a pay cut. He just signed a one year deal so he could get Bird rights. The Rockets and Chuck always had an under the table deal anyways. As to Hakeem taking a 50% paycut. I dont think that is possible anyways. I might be wrong, but as far as I remember you cant really restructure a contract like you can in the NFL. Even if you could do it, Hakeem would be stupid to do it. I mean who in their rite mind would give up 8 million dollars. Hakeem gave us our first two championships, and some of the best memories of my lifetime. And I am not about to get pissed off at the greatest Rocket of all time cause he might hinder our team a little bit. Let Hakeem come back and have his farewell tour. If he is plays well, then no would be happier then me, if he has another subpar season, my love for him still does not grow any less. The day Hakeem does retire will be by far one of the saddest days of my life. And Dreamer thanks for actually making me cry rite now. ------------------
Launchpad, Hakeem is scheduled to make 14 mill next year-a 50% cut means 7 mill towards a stud FA (Duncan? Hill? Whomever you fancy.) If we ship enough bodies, and perhaps invlove another team, it could be done. Again, I'm am looking at the Team's long and short term success if Hakeem takes a cut. According to you, Barkley was being a narcissist for taking a paycut; wouldn't Hakeem then be a hero (o.k., according to you a stupid hero).
Rockets3, Barkley took a paycut so we could get Pippen. When he left, we had money to pay him 9 mill for his final season. It had nothing to do with Bird rights, to the best of my memory. I have read that under the CBA, a player's salary will count under the cap even if he retires. However, if the player stays and takes a 50% cut, the difference will be reflected in the cap. But the sources could be wrong. Oh yeah, I got this info. from clutchcityBBS capologists-I just remembered.
I still dont think that Barkley took a paycut. He just waited to get his money. As for Hakeem being a Hero, he already is the biggest hero I know. and this new 50% paycut reflecting in cap is the first time Ive heard of such a thing. Now Im no captologist, but even if Hakeem takes a paycut, there would have to be other things done to bring us below the cap. We are so much over the cap that his 7-8 million paycut wont bring us the same amount under the cap. We would still have about only 3-4 million under the cap. ------------------
Rockets3, What's the difference if Barkley waited to get a big contract or took a paycut-the net result is the same. The point is Barkley willingly took less money to get a big freeagent (Pippen). It'd be nice to see Dream do the same. [This message has been edited by Pass 1st, shoot 2nd (edited April 17, 2000).]
Quick question to add fuel to the fire: Assuming Hakeem plays next year, how will you feel if he spends the year either on the injured list (well, at least the majority of it) or if he averages 9 pts and 5 rebs and around 15 min. per game? Will it have been worth it for him to stay? I, personally, think the Rockets have nothing to lose by allowing him to play next season, but Olajuwon might have a tough time with it. The Rockets are not going to go through Hakeem anymore. Period. Or is everyone out there ready to go back to the only system Rudy knows how to coach - dump it down low (that's a joke, son) - with a guy who doesn't have the skills to make that a viable and consistent offensive option? I guess I'm just wondering if Olajuwon was relegated to a Charles Jones type role, would that be ok? I think he deserves another season and the Rockets can't gain much by asking him to retire anyway, but will that last season be a tribute and a graceful end or another nightmare season? ------------------ "No one gets out ALIVE!" SaveOurRockets.com
BTW: Hakeem's contract is "guaranteed." The Rockets cannot cut his contract even if he wanted them to do so. They could re-negotiate, but only to extend the deal and stretch that money out over several years and that isn't going to happen. ------------------ "No one gets out ALIVE!" SaveOurRockets.com
Nice post Jeff... I get the feeling this summer is going to be one of if not the busiest in franchise history. Liked the comment on Rudy T only knowing how to coach the "dump it in" offense.... where is Caveman these days? With regards to Hakeem, I'm stumped. We had a chance and let it pass but I won't go there. I want to see him come back and go out strong... unless he just has no desire left in the tank. ------------------ NOTHING BUT .NET CLUTCHCITY.NET
I thought Hakeem was due to make $16 mil next season. Oh well, let's use $14 mil; it'll work better for my arguments anyway Now, let's assume that is possible to buy out his contract and free up $7 mil. I believe that our payroll for next year is in the range of $42 mil (the salary cap will be about $37 mil). Subtract the $7 mil and you have $35 mil (i.e. $2 mil under the cap). Now add on the $1 and $2 mil exceptions and you have a whopping $5 mil to attract a big-time free agent ("Here you go Mr. Duncan; 5 whole million dollars . . . uhm, Mr. Duncan? What are you laughing at sir?"). My point: $5 mil total dollars isn't going to make a huge difference for this team, so Hakeem might as well collect the paycheck that he's earned over the last 16 years. After all, he's not stupid ------------------ [This message has been edited by Launch Pad (edited April 17, 2000).]
