I am sick of reading all this overblown crap about Shandon getting traded because of something a bitter UTAH writer said. So I have to ask something. Since Joe Smith signed with Detroit for one year, he will be a free agent next year. There is a chance that MoTay will not come back, and I am not sure if I want him to at this point. But this means that Smith will be available at the same time as Mo. What are the chances we could lure Smith over to us? I am not that familiar with Smith's game, but he has to be a better rebounder than Taylor, right? Who thinks this would be a worthwhile venture? ------------------ She hates testicles, thus limiting the men she can admire to Democratic candidates for president. -- John Greenway, "The American Tradition", on feminist Elizabeth Gould Davis
I like the idea. I've always been a big Joe Smith fan. As far as Taylor goes, if he truly asks for the max, the only person more insane than him would be the one who signs him to it. Smith is a better PF, IMHO, and would fit better in our team. We have a lot of scoring opportunities right now...we have no rebounding. And I'm not saying Joe Smith is a dominant rebounder by any stretch, but he has got to be better on the boards than MO. ------------------ Jazzkiller
He also said that he'd like to play somewhere with a nice atmosphere, a family atmosphere like Minnesota....I think it would be great....but for how much? ------------------
I`m sorry but Joe Smith is at best a below average forward.Why the T`wolves would be willing to destroy there franchise over this guy is beyond me. ------------------
please tell me you guys aren't serious. joe smith over mo taylor? joe smith, since leaving maryland, has been one of the biggest dispppointments in the league. right there with kandi. right there with d. marshall. the only thing he has going for him is that he's from maryland. and i'm sorry, but for someone who doesn't have a jumpshot (which is a prerequisite on the rox), doesn't have good post moves, doesn't pass well, rebounds decently, and has a penchant for stupidity (ahem, ahem, kevin mchale) i'll pass. at least with mo taylor there a chance he won't be a failure. with joe smith, the fate's been sealed. ------------------ Mobley and Francis ...are not the two best players on the team. - Rockeem 11/2/2000
Ok, verse. I understand. I wasn't all that familiar with his offensive and defensive talent. But say this, what if Mo asks for the max, obviously WE won't give it to him, so he leaves. If Joe Smith plays sub par this year, he will come cheap, and we will still need a PF (I still don't think we should start KT). Would there be a better PF out there for the price? ------------------ She hates testicles, thus limiting the men she can admire to Democratic candidates for president. -- John Greenway, "The American Tradition", on feminist Elizabeth Gould Davis
As far as the question of who is better between Taylor and Smith, IMHO, I would take Smith. Look at their career stats: Maurice Taylor: 14.6 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 1.2 apg, 29.2 min/game Joe Smith: 14.5 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 1.3 apg, 32.2 min/game You don't give up any of the scoring, and, although assists are not always an accurate measure of a players' passing ability, their assists are equal, with Smith giving you 2 and a half more boards per game. Not to mention, out of the two, Smith will NOT be asking for the maximum next offseason. Don't get me wrong, I am extremely happy we were able to land Taylor, not because he is a DOMINANT power forward, but because, frankly, what other option did we have? I would rather have Taylor start than any other power forward we have, and he was a bargain, no-rebounds and all, at the price we got him. But if Smith can give us everything that Taylor gives us, and perhaps a little bit more, at a lower price, what are the drawbacks? I think it may be a matter worth pursuing, IMHO. I know Smith has been disappointing, but that's because he was expected to be a dominant PF, and he most certainly is not. But that does not make him a bad player, by any stretch. I think it is awfully premature to be calling him a failure. The man is 25 years old, and is a 15-7 player. Certainly not dominating, but certainly not a failure. I'm not going to profess that I have seen Smith play that often...I haven't. But, his numbers are very encouraging, considering that Taylor will want the max. Wow. Maybe I should go now and start the Joe Smith fan club. ------------------ Jazzkiller [This message has been edited by slcrocket (edited November 21, 2000).]
Straight up!!!!slcrocket, you're alright!! ------------------ Rudy T. will find and fulfill Rockets destiny.
in a way i see what you're saying. both have similar numbers and are relatively close in age, so you figure "why not take the cheaper option?" the problem i have with joe smith is 1) no jump shot (aforementioned prereq. in the rox system) 2) maxed out what i mean by #2 is that he is maxed out in terms of his growth. I have seen NOTHING in joe smith either mentally or physically which lead me to believe he will improve. i could go with the old, "he played on a bad team, with no talent theory" (golden state) except for the fact that he also played like garbage for the t-wolves. taylor, on the other hand, has more upside IMO. while he hasn't shown much improvement this year, I do see DESIRE to improve. he is hustling. and with the sheer physical gifts that he has (and joe does not have) i believe his growth potential to be higher than joe's. offensively, he excels. defensively, he struggles. for joe, he is average on offense (garbageman pf with no j) and average on defense. i'd take taylor. especially in the system we run. ------------------ Mobley and Francis ...are not the two best players on the team. - Rockeem 11/2/2000
What will be the max for Falk and MoMoney next year and where do we draw the line? ------------------ I'ma need more than 6 and a half rebounds a game from the PF
First off mo taylor is far better than Joe smith. He certainly has been a bust since he departed maryland. He has a horrible offensive game and is an above average rebounder at best. Mo taylor has a very polished offensive game and a soft touch. We need scoring from our big men more than defense at this point. Also if we need that blue collar guy who goes in their to get rebounds we bring in kenny thomas. He is more than capable of being a good rebounder and has awesome footwork ------------------ www.truebballfansite.homestead.com
With regards to Joe Smith, don't look at his career stats, look at his stats during the 3 years Taylor has been in the league. His scoring average has gone from 14.6 to 13.7 to 9.9. In those same 3 years Taylor's scoring average has gone from 11.5 to 16.8 to 17.1. Notice a trend? In addition, Taylor's rebounding has improved each year in the league (although this year, it's crummy...I suspect it will improve with the continuing healing of his broken finger). Based on the 1st 12 games of this season, I would not offer Taylor a huge contract next year, but I would certainly persue him over Joe Smith. ------------------
Everyone here is making good points, but no one really answered my last question... Say, for instance, that Mo has a decent year, just like last, and averages 18 pts and 6 rebs (I doubt it, but just go with me on this), he and Faulk ask for the max, which he is not worth for 6 rebs (I hope I don't have to argue this point). MoTay asks for the max, we are not willing to give it to him, so he leaves. Now MoTay is out of the picture. Regardless of who is better between Taylor and Smith, would it be worth our while to try to land Smith as a starting PF next season, or should we entrust KT to step up for us (or is there another free agent PF who would be better)? P.S. I still don't think it is feasible that we could get C Webb. P.S.S Sorry bobrek, I just saw the bottom part of your last post. Thank you for answering, but what does everyone else think? ------------------ She hates testicles, thus limiting the men she can admire to Democratic candidates for president. -- John Greenway, "The American Tradition", on feminist Elizabeth Gould Davis [This message has been edited by RunninRaven (edited November 21, 2000).]
I understand what you're saying about the lack of a jumpshot, and I'll concede this one. I really have NO idea how much of an outside touch he has. I understand how much Rudy LOVES guys that can shoot, but let me pose this question...would it be so bad if we had one PF who was more of a post player, and less of a shooter, if it meant more rebounds? I believe one of the reasons for his falling scoring average was the fewer minutes he was played as seasons went on, for the most part. In 98-99, like you said, he averaged 13.7 points, but did it in 33.0 min/game. And in 99-00, he averaged 9.9 points, but did it in 25.3 min/game. Now, it's really sad that I have the time to do this, but if you look at point production per minute played, you get: 0.42 points/minute in 98-99 0.40 points/minute in 99-00 Kind of makes that difference a little more understandable. Not to mention that he was starting in 98-99, and coming off the bench in 99-00. But my main reason for wanting Smith over Taylor is that if Smith can average 6.2 rebounds per game COMING OFF THE BENCH (in 99-00) and playing only 25.3 min/game, why the hell is Taylor giving me 4.9 rebounds per game STARTING (in 99-00) and playing 35.9 min/game? Taylor appears to be very soft to me, in every aspect of the game. If Smith has the same appearance, then there is no advantage there, but like I said, I don't watch the Timberwolves too often. All I know is that it's pathetic to be rebounding the ball the way he is. SWOPA--Can you help me out? Being a Warrior fan, you have seen more of Smith than I. I just know that I'm sick of excuses like "Taylor's trying to get rebounds. He's putting forth the effort." I don't give a damn what effort he's putting forth if he's not PULLING DOWN THE DAMN BOARDS. Even if you are right, and Smith's offensive production continues to slide, this team is all right offensively. We're 14th in the league in points scored, which is just fine. But we're second to last in the league in rebounding, and the 4-spot is where SOME of your rebounding should come from. And I'm sorry, I can't be content with an offensively-gifted power forward who can't find a rebound when he's the only one on the floor. Give me a decent offensive player who will pull down a board or two. As far as Taylor's offensive totals continuing to go up, his minutes per game have also increased in that time. Oh, God, breaking out the calculator again... 97-98:11.5 points/game, 21.3 minutes/game 98-99:16.8 points/game, 32.7 minutes/game 99-00:17.1 points/game, 35.9 minutes/game 97-98:0.54 points/minute 98-99:0.51 points/minute 99-00:0.48 points/minute I believe that Taylor's increases in minutes throughout the years are a major reason for his increased scoring. Don't get me wrong, Taylor is a gifted scorer...but if the guy isn't rebounding, I'll stick by my ideas stated above. As far as your seeing "his desire" to improve, I just don't see it. I'm sorry. But, for the sake of our Rockets, I'm glad one of us does. RunninRaven--To finally answer your question, I believe that any option to improve your team is pursuable. If Taylor bolts (and good riddance if he is asking for the max), why not look into Joe Smith, as you would any other player who could help out a team? It's hard to say whether or not we should pursue him, as we have no idea how much he will be asking for, or how he will produce this year. On the other hand, having KT as a starter will not be a BAD scenario, but, if I was a Houston GM, I would continue to look... Oh, and if it is true that Smith is more of a "garbage PF," as was stated above, wouldn't it be nice to have one? Seriously, a guy who will REBOUND a shot and put it in? I don't give a damn where his scoring is coming from as long as he's rebounding to go with it. For the sake of the Rockets, I truly hope you are right to think Taylor is better than Smith. I hope he will improve!! But, until he does, I will remain skeptical... ------------------ Jazzkiller [This message has been edited by slcrocket (edited November 22, 2000).]
I completely agree, slcrocket. I have always felt that, with the current system the Rockets are employing offensively, the PF spot is not a necessary source of offensive output. I would much rather see a player there who can average 9-10 rebs a game and 8-9 pts, rather than a PF who would average 15-16 pts a game and only 5 rebs. Personally, the reason I feel that MoTay has not gotten his offense completely on track is because he can't really get that many touches in our system which doesn't rely on the post up offense. Damn it would have been nice to have gotten Croshere or Bo Outlaw this off-season. But, I am not giving up on Taylor learning how to rebound. Rebounding CAN be taught, and I think it will eventually get through his head that if he doesn't start pulling the boards down this season, he will never be able to ask for the max, because I can almost guaruntee that his pts/game will go down from last year. Come on MoTay! In the words of Metallica, "Jump in the fire!" (pronounced figh-ya!). ------------------ She hates testicles, thus limiting the men she can admire to Democratic candidates for president. -- John Greenway, "The American Tradition", on feminist Elizabeth Gould Davis
I would most definatley take Joe Smith over Mo Taylor at this point. For people saying that he has no more talent to give, are wrong. His stats were not great last year, but he also played with KG and Terrell Brandon and only started 9 games. In 25 minutes a game, he averaged 10 points, 6 boards. How many boards does Taylor average when he starts, and plays 35 minutes? about 5? I'm sorry but that does not quallify for a real pf, that qualifies for an ultra soft, shooting pf which we do not need right now, what we need is a banger who can get the rebounds when francis, mobley, and anderson miss, and put them back up and in. This is a team run by the backcourt now, and we dont need a soft pf to slow our tempo down for, we need a banger to go along with rudy's new offense and be a garbage man, and we have not had one ever since chuckster left, and smith could do this for us much better than MO could. ------------------ The Rockets Championship in 2001...Be-Steve-it
Plus, there's always the draft. Who knows what kind of gems we may get in that (or what kind of veteran gems we can trade picks for)...dont the rockets have like 800 million draft picks coming up? ------------------ "Jop tvai mat!" - Arvydas Sabonis after Steve Francis sat on his head after a dunk
Yes, Valio, there is the possibility of the Rockets having a great deal of draft picks this year, depending on which teams are willing to give them up. I didn't really consider the draft because I don't know of any good PFs in it that might be within reach of Houston... but Rudy has let loose some surprises before! ------------------ She hates testicles, thus limiting the men she can admire to Democratic candidates for president. -- John Greenway, "The American Tradition", on feminist Elizabeth Gould Davis
