Its saddening for me to hear that GM will be dropping the Camaro, Firebird line after this year. Rumors are that they may reintroduce it in a few years as a front wheel drive (ack ack) more family type car, much like they have done with the impala, and Monte Carlo. My realistic (realistic I mean one I could possible see myself talking my wife into for the price) dream car is a Camaro SS. You cant get that kind of performance for that kind of price. Heck you can find them with less than a few thousand miles on em for under 20,000. Your talking around 400 horse....good lord. I detest the idea of Mustangs being all thats left of well priced, rear wheel driven, performance cars. If you can call them that. Wont someone save these wonderful cars please.
BOOO!!! I love the Camaro -- it's a well-priced sports car. They're going to make the same mistake that Ford/Mercury did with removing the Cougar/Thunderbird. The T-bird has returned as a cool car, but unbelievably expensive. The Cougar is in danger of being eliminated. Yet those cars rocked, and filled a unique nice. So does the Camaro -- it's direct competitor was the Mustang . . . looks like Ford won.
Thats what I dont understand? Yes the Mustang was the Camaro's direct competition. But pound for pound the Camaro stock destroys the Mustang stock. Both cost all but the same, have about the same history so why does the Mustang win? Maybe Im biased. Ive owned several Fords, but never a chevy. Actually hate them outside of the Corvette and Camaro. But does the Mustang look better than the Camaro? I really dont think so. Personally to me the Mustang has become a womans sports car (not that theres anything wrong with that) So is that why it out sold the camaro almost 2 to 1 the last year? I dont know, either way nothing is as great as the 5 decade old competition of Mustang vs Camaro. To see it go will be a travesty.
The Mustang has always outsold the Camaro. 33 years they've gone head to head, 25 the Mustang has lead in sales. Maybe the Mustang is just the better car.
Maybe in the 70's and late 80's. But the 60's the 90's, and currently the Camaro is a crapstang killer. For identical money the Z28 destroys the girlish 4.4 (oops i meant 4.6) GT. Heck Im not sure if a cobra could hang with a good Driver in a Z28. But put a SS up against that Cobra and watch that Cobra limp to the line. Heck it would take a Saleen (the 4th step up) to match the 3rd step up (if it acutally could even do so) in the SS. Stock that is. When I see a Mustang, my first thought is that of a pinto on steroids. Either way, its saddening to see the the whole competition just dye.
First, the Camaro is a blatant rip-off of the Mustang. Secondly, the Camaro is only faster than the Mustang because GM took a Corvette engine and dropped it in the Camaro. How creative. Thirdly, The 60's Mustangs may be one of the greatest cars ever made, there is no comparison to the Camaro of that time, Fourth, the competition has been dead since 1995, GM just took this long to realize it.
It's marketing . . . Mustang has a historical appeal to it . . . also, there's a ton of aftermarket stuff for the mustang, but you rarely see camaros that are modded in any way. Stock camaros are faster, no doubt -- I always wanted one, but couldn't afford it, even though they are nicely priced. In 1989, my dad bought a 1987 camaro . . . black -- coolest car I've ever ridden in. It was awesome. Z28 . . . we had to sell it b/c we moved to Norway 6 months later, but WOW, it kicked ass!
This same thing was going to happen to the Corvette back in the late 90's then they came out with that new body design and they could not make enough of them. Mabey this will happen to the Camaro, if the re-design it. My dad had a 67 convertabel camaro, that was and is the coolest car thea I have ever ridden in.
Ten or Twelve years ago, it was the Mustang that was facing extinction. Ford introduced the Probe in 1988 to replace the Mustang, but it didn't sell that well and was discontinued in '93... Anyone remember those Mustang hatchbacks from the 80's/early 90's? Gawd, those things were ugly. Ugly, square body design, and the six cylinder engine was OPTIONAL. I mean, c'mon, a Mustang four banger? You've got to be kidding me... But, it was either '93 or '94 that Ford completely re-designed the Mustang. Gave it a more curvy body design and more sporty feel, and made the V6 standard. The rest is gravy...
Maybe GM did the right thing by leaving the sports car department. Maybe Ford hasn't realize that the sports car is on the decline. Maybe everybody is buying up a neat little Euro Car, or a nifty little Japanese car. And yes. A mustang is a girl car. AN AUTOMATIC MUSTANG is a girls car. Thank you
I think more-so than the sports car is on the decline, the sports sedan is on the rise. I mean you now have Nissan Altima's and Maxima's running low-6's STOCK. These are family-haulers! About 3-5 years ago, those were Mustang GT numbers. That and cars like the Maxima's are reliable as hell. Also, true Japanese performance cars rarely make it to the US in their "best" forms. Nissan has revived the Z car and it can hang with most Camaro's and Mustangs in their stock versions, plus it actually looks modern. Personally, I don't know what GM could've done for the Camaro. The thing already had a de-tuned Vette engine in it. Any more powerful and too many people would be asking themselves "umm.... why get a 'Vette? Save about $20k and get a Camaro if all you want is performance!" The Mustang doesn't have this problem - it is the performance line for Ford. I personally don't like either the Mustang or the Camaro, but if it came down to looks, I think the Mustang wins. The Camaro looks so damn bland now. As for the Camaro SS blowing away Cobras... the new 2003 SVT Cobra has reportedly been clocked in the mid-to-low 4's in 0-60 times. I think the car costs in the low-to-mid 30's. I read an article on it a while back but don't have the magazine handy at the moment. The Camaro SS I think ran in the low 5's, right? Either way, if they were to beat teh SVT Cobra's times and performance, they'd be encroaching on their own Corvette.
Umm according to Car and Driver dated September 01... Mustang GT: 0-60=6.0 sec Top Speed=139 MPH 1/4 mile=14.7 secs Mustang SVT Cobra: 0-60=4.8 sec Top Speed=148 MPH 1/4 mile=13.5 secs. Chevy Camaro Z28: 0-60=5.2 Sec Top Speed=158 MPH 1/4 mile=13.8 secs Dont have info on SS yet but looks to me like the regular Zs8 is about the equal of the SVT Cobra. Its slightly slower in the 0-60 almost the same in the quarter, and blowing it away fully throttled. Do you really want to compare it to the SS?
There's a guy at SJ who has an old 1960s Camaro in PERFECT condition . . . it's incredible. When I get a digital camera, I'll post pictures. I like the look better than that of the 'stang.
I heard about this months ago. Lynus has a '88 Mustang with a '93 interior I believe. Really wish he was here to talk about this. He doesn't have too many modifications yet, but I know he did 1/4 mile fast than 13 sec when the car was newer (it has like 125,000+ miles on it now and still drives beautifully). And just because the Camero might be faster doesn't mean it "out performs" a Mustang. I don't know too much about cars, just what I pick up from Lynus and magazines or TV here and there. But I know he would take a Mustang over a Camero anyday and he always will. (I wouldn't group the Corvette in with these cars. He's always told me it's not a true muscle car. Don't get mad at me, I'm just passing along what he told me.) The '94-'99 Mustangs (I think that's about when the models changed) are girly. The newer ones are starting to be a little more masculine again. And I hope they continue down that path. I have always wanted a Mustang. There's something about them that I have always liked. Lynus always said there's nothing sexier than a girl driving a muscle car (standard-not automatic)! (and he lets me drive his car )
The SS 0-60 times should be equivalent to the new 2003 SVT Cobras. The top speed is irrelevant because so many cars are speed-governed/limited. Here's where the problem was for Chevy. The Camaro gets a de-tuned Vette engine dropped into it that performs nearly as well as the previous-generation Vette which did 0-60's in about 4.5 or so seconds. To make the SS cheap enough not to be a Vette, they had to use some of the crappiest interiors this side of a Pinto. The true battle for "common" sports-car supremacy in America is between the new Z06 and the new 2003 Viper. To the winner goes the crown...
Really thats not even a battle if you think of it. Both are great looking cars (of course I think the Viper looks better), but for almost half the price and maybe more performance the Corvette rules supreme in this battle. When Dodge decides to drop the price on the Viper just a tad, then this may become a closer battle. Oh and Princess...the camaro solidly outperformes the Mustang. Check out any magazine (Car and Driver ect) and youll see. Really I didnt want to get into a this car is better than that car (even though I did) more so I wanted to show regret in losing the rivalry and a classic american automobile.
Dreamshake, I don't really doubt you. All I know is that Lynus would take a Mustang over a Camero anyday. And I really don't know that a Camero outperforms a Mustang and what factors are even considered in the performance. I've just never liked Cameros. Always loved Mustangs.