I was talking to a few Mavs fans about the Rox and Mav's prospects next year, thinking that our team at least had a shot of being better. They were talking about their great draft with Alexander and Thomas, how Trent was coming back, and how Nowitzki was turning into a star, not to mention Michael Finley. Then I proposed a bet to one of the guys, who laughed and asked who we had on the team beside Francis. I said Cuttino Mobley. One guy had never heard of him and the other two didn't view him very highly. Then they asked who else we had and my only response was Dream, which got another group of laughs. Shandon Anderson is a solid player but isn't exactly known for his offensive abilities. The point is, if Dream isn't at full strength and if Cuttino leaves, or even if he stays actually, what makes us think that we will have a good team next year? Is it the run at the end of last season? Because even bad teams have good winning streaks. It will take another impact player, and believe me Croshere doesn't qualify, to ever compete for a championship, and another player the likes of Croshere to even compete for a playoff spot. ------------------
Think back and ask yourself who we had when we won our first championship. Hakeem and the 11 dwarfs. Ok, maybe Otis was a bit more than that, but still... you get the picture. Having superstars on your team doesn't mean you'll win titles and if your Mavs fans want proof, ask them about the good ol' days when they had Jimmy Jackson, Jamal Mashburn, and Jason Kidd on the same team. What year did those 3 win a championship? Oh yeah. Never. I still don't think the Rockets have what it takes to make much of a dent in the playoffs, but I'm not among the group of people that say we need another superstar to win. What the heck did Orlando have on their team this year other than a bunch of guys willing to play their butts off and show little if any ego? Yet they had a respectable season for a team that was being gutted to free up cap space. ------------------ Just shut up and post
could not agree more. I would still rather have Francis than all Mavericks combined. ------------------ Fuggetabout it
How can you use Orlando as an example? They didn't even make the playoffs. Secondly, OT was an all-star the year of or before our championship. And Hakeem was the most unstoppable force in the league, something a point guard almost always can't be. Stars don't mean everything, but to compete with LA, it's going to take at least two. The three J's in Dallas never were stars in Dallas, they all had star potential but simply weren't. For proof of their abilities look at them now, other than Kidd. ------------------
No, Newguy, we aren't going to be great next season and I have my doubts as to whether we'll match the Mavs win total. It's called rebuilding, and it's a painful process. ------------------ "I'll take a Dream Shake for two, please."
Wow, that was impressive there Gascon, but what you failed to realize was that my original post was meant to show everyone who said we could make a run next year deep into the playoffs that it would take another star. In fact it will take another star to compete in the future too. Not to mention I didn't even mention next year in my last post. So what was your point with that post? ------------------
1. You should have asked who the Mavs center was. And who nailed his punk-ass right in the kisser. 2. Why would Dallas fans know didley about the Rocks anyway? 3. You could have also told them about Shandon, Cato, KT, and Collier. Some very interesting prospects. 4.if everything falls into place, the Rockets could have a good season. But i'll just be happy with consistency and improvement. 5. Croshere isnt going to bring the Rocks the championship. That is Steve's job. If Croshere comes, it will be to help Francis. Rockets will do whatever they can to land a star to compliment Francis, but for now they need to load up on talent and give him some help. ------------------ I am so exasperated that I could expectorate.
Guys do you really think we can win the championship in the next 3 seasons. How many guys have more than 2 years of playoff experience? Shandon, Walt, Matt and the Dream. I really don't count Cato and Carlos because they didn't play much on their past team Portland. Other than the Dream and Shandon, are any of the others mentioned all-round players? No. This team is going to have to grow and learn by experiencing it first hand. Did Michael Jordan's Bulls dominate early in the playoffs, no he had to grow and so did his team before they finally beat the Pistons. Can we make the playoffs, hopefully. These young guys are barely starting their careers(Francis, Norris, Mobley, Langhi, Thomas, Collier and even Cato). I'm not too excited about Croshere but I wouldn't mind a solid player like him. Seems to be a hard worker and plays with confidence. I hope we can land someone with our 2 million exemption but not sure who. ------------------
Who gives a flying **** whether stupid Mavs fans know who our players are? Our team is full of rookies and 2nd round draft picks. After a couple years of us kicking their butts I'm sure they'll know who Mobley is. ------------------ Hakeem, Hasaw, Haconquered.
They should've known who Mobley was, and maybe they will next year, when he's flyin' high with Vince Carter in Toronto. Our rebuilding process got a head start everyone was saying, but we haven't added one piece to it. Collier and Langhi are huge projects, and who knows if KT and Cato will ever develop into good NBA players? You can bet Thomas and Alexander have a better shot than our pair. Our rebuilding was a step ahead, now we're right back in the middle of the pack. And I did ask them who their center was Crisco, but unfortunately that was the only point I could beat 'em on, and you can bet it wasn't because of b-ball knowledge, it was the teams prospects. And KeepKenny, if you have a team of rookies and 2nd rounders like you said, what gives you any reason they will pan out. If that were the formula Vancouver would be unbelievable right now. So would Denver. But when was the last time either of those made the playoffs? ------------------
NEWGUY- Tell your friends that our nameless players kicked thier arrss 3times last year. We only lost the one game that Franchise was ejected when Robert ICE Pack grabbed Stevie and Stevie threw a blow at him. For next year, they may have Thomas and Alexander, but they are still the Mavericks. The Bengals had Dillon, Blake, and Pickens and the were still the Bengals. Remind them also that the Mavs went 40-42. The Rocks are the ones that gave them thier 41 lost and prevented them from going above .500 in 10 YEARS. Does Norwiski even play a lick of "D". He is better than a last year, but so is CATMAN. MAVERICKS, HAHAHAHA DON'T MAKE ME LAUGH! ------------------
The Mavericks do have some quality young talent and could become a force. However, you should seriously question someone's basketball opinion when they do not even know who Cuttino Mobley is. Also, when people you talk to just discuss talent and have a total disregard for chemistry, that should raise a red flag as well. The impression I get from the conversation you just described is that these fans really dont know that much about hoops and were just trying to talk a bunch of "smack". I still remember how crazy Clippers fans on AOL were going last yr when they got Derek Anderson and Lamar Odom. They were talking like they would be playoff bound. Obviously Rockets and other teams fans found it hilarious but they kept running their "smack". Fans of teams that have been down for so long react this way at any small signs of success. When Dallas got the 3 J's, their fans were acting like they'd be the next dynasty or something. You have to take all this stuff with a grain of salt and not let it get you down. Winning a championship is not as easy as stockpiling a bunch of talent. At the beginning of last yr, everyone was saying, wow look at all this talent Portland has and they named off ten solid players. Portland has been this way for the past few seasons and it has not panned out. The key is to have 2 stud options and then complement them with a bunch of role players. If the Rockets do not get Chris Webber in 2001, that is not the end of the world. A player like Rashard Lewis that can develop into a solid #2 option behind Francis would be adequate. They just need to surround them with quality role players like Austin Croshere, Jason Collier, Kelvin Cato, Shandon Anderson, Cuttino Mobley etc that complement their games. The Rockets are doing just fine on their re-building. They are adding piece by piece and developing strong team chemistry. Fans that dont even know who Cuttino Mobley is will think that the Rockets arent doing anything. Just wait a few yrs and watch how this develops. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
The Mavs were better than us last year and their additions have been much more significant than ours. They were a big winner in the draft, it would be hard to argue we even were in the middle of the pack. This thread was not about my Mav-fan friends not knowing who the Rockets are, it just was to show that the only reason we think we have a playoff team next year and a championship-caliber team for the future is that last winning streak. Steve Francis should be one of the best players in the league, but so is Gary Payton. Where has he gotten without another star? Nowhere. This nucleus is UNBELIEVABLE if we can land another star like Lewis, Webber, or a top 3 draft pick next year. Chemistry is important, but just like talent without chemistry goes nowhere, chemistry without talent can't be a serious title contender. And by talent I mean stars. Noone can say that Kobe and Shaq are better together. Kobe could average 30 without Shaq, Shaq 35 without Kobe. But they are both talented, and even though their chemistry isn't great (I will admit Jackson made it better) they dominate every team in the league. Throw in Glen Rice, who was easily one of the 10 best players in the league while with Charlotte, and you've got three bona fide all-stars who all take game away from each other. Where did that lack of chemistry get them? Championship rings. ------------------ [This message has been edited by NewGuy (edited July 17, 2000).]
I'll take Cat, Stevie and Shandon anyday over the people over at Dallas. Finley is good, But Stevie has way more upside. As far as the rest of the Mav's, I just don't see that much more talent, Dirk is good but it's his sophamore year and you know about that jinx, maybe, maybe not but we'll see next year. We have a good mix of 1st and 2nd year players with some veterans. I still have faith in Cato and Kenny Thomas combo will work. Our gaurds are great and those fowards we drafted seem to have game. The Rockets time will be 2001-2002 not next year. I will tell you this, the Mavs will still suck!!! Go ROCKETS!! ------------------ the Heat suck!!
As Dallas went into the Draft everyone said Dallas has a good trio at the 2-3-4 with Finley, Nowitzki and Trent but needed a good PG and C to become a playoff-team. What did they get ? 3 PFs, 1 SF, 1 SG and Eric Murdock. Now many say how much Dallas improved. I don`t see that, at least not yet. The PGs are the same with the substitution of Strickland with Murdock. Alexander won`t have much PT behind Finley and Bradley is the only remaining C. But it seems like they are trying to collect as many Forwards as they have assistent coaches: Trent, Thomas, Harvey, Najera, Nowitzki, Ceballos, Wallace and Finley being able to play SF as well. If there aren`t some major trades before the season starts I don`t think they`ll be closer to the playoffs than we are. But if there are trades ahead could the rockets be included? Is it for Harvey or a S+T for Trent and what would you give up for them?
NewGuy, I will go ahead and put my money on Collier and Langhi over Thomas and Alexander. The difference is coaching, and no one knows how to utilize a players skills like Rudy. Just look at how he brought the punk *ss b*tch out of Pippen. That wasn't easy, and now Pippen couldn't hide it if he wanted to. ------------------ "Stranger things have happened, but none stranger than this" - Commentator after a parachutist landed in the ring of a Holyfield fight [This message has been edited by Rocketsauce (edited July 17, 2000).]
If the difference is coaching, then the Mavs clearly have the edge. They have two coaches for every player ------------------
This is why I trust in Rudy. The trick to keeping a good team together is to have low profile players with potential that only the coach and the fans have seen and believe in. This way other teams money is not to lure them away.It is like a new company the employees are the only ones that know the real potential of the company and don't want to become public until the right time when we will have a good chance of the championship. If we don't get it right away, we have about 2 years after that to get the right combination, or bust! This is what most of the losing teams have tried to do but have busted because they can't keep there own players which means they don't believe in the system!The team became public to quickly! This is why Rudy is a great Coach(CEO) of the Rockets, he can instil the game plan(Time frame) into the players, while at the same time instilling the potential(mission statement) of the company. Rudy has done it before(with TWO RINGS) and he can do it again, he has not changed the way he looks at the big picture. Dallas' best player Finley has been there for a while now. Dallas may have a good year this year, but if this does not happen very soon Finey will be gone. Dallas is at the point that they have to win now or personel will start to jolt to a better team company.With a another losing season, it does not take to long before things start going south, especially with CEO-Nelson. The trick to being a great CEO is to keep value low in the beginning with high potential, and explode with both later, and no one will be able to compete! Remember the Old Rockets that is exactly what happened. Once Rudy had the Right complement of chemicals(players) it made a very explosive compound(94&95 Champion Rockets). Our value is not to high right now, but it has more potential than Dallas. Dallas may have a higher value, but less potential after this year. Dallas has been trying to rebuild forever and this is the closest they have gotten, this is their time to shine. Our opportunity to shine will be in about a year or so! And we should be shining with a much better foundation than what Dallas has right now to shine with. Everybody just stay patient, Rudy is the Man! We will be back on top soon enough! ------------------ "Instinctly u recognize things,now take advantage of what u just recognized!".. Hakeem..
Coaching will undoubtedly play a large role in the success of the two teams. However, who does Dallas have really. Steve Francis is much better and will be a better star than both FInley and Nowitzki. Nowitzki has one good year under his belt. FInley is almost a bona-fide all-star but he has shown no signs of leadership, and both teams had similar records last year. So, you basically have to look at teh additions. Will Alexander and Thomas help them more than Collier and Langhi will help us. Most likely. In general, higer picks do do better (in general) and as of right now I would be surprised if any fans outside of Houston knew much of anything about Langhi. Heck, I cant tell you who every team took in the second round either. But will Alexander and THomas make Dallas a great team. No. I really like Alexander and I hope Dallas utilizes him well. And THomas seems to be a banger with excellent shot blocking ability. Dallas will be better than us next year most likely. But we should leapfrog past them the following year and the difference wont be that large this year IMO anyway as so far the Big-D hasnt been to successful with young "stars" ------------------ When I die I want to go peacefully like my grandfather. Not screaming like the passengers in the back seat!
Two coaches for every player is nice but unfortunately Don cancels them out. Does anyone else remember when he used to wear those fish ties. Back then he could coach. Maybe there is a connection. Let's hope he doesn't break out the dreaded fish tie against the Rockets this year. ------------------ "Stranger things have happened, but none stranger than this" - Commentator after a parachutist landed in the ring of a Holyfield fight
