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A Prediction: Both Harden & Westbrook Will Be Gone

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Furious Jam, Sep 16, 2020.

  1. Fyreball

    Fyreball Contributing Member

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    I still can't wrap my head around all these stupid ass Harden trade ideas. I literally can't even think of another instance where a team traded away a FIRST BALLOT HOF, still-in-his-prime player who was HAPPY to be on the team and in the city. Harden has done nothing but ball out for you ungrateful assholes, and all you do is bitch about the man. He is in the conversation for TOP 5 most prolific scorers of all time, and you have jamokes in here calling him a glorified 6th man and someone who can't win. Outside of LeBron, name me another ****ing player in this league that can win with the teams that Harden has had around him? Yes, the man has flaws. His 4th quarter playoff performances leave a lot to be desired. But that's why it's IMPERATIVE to put guys around him that actually do their jobs correctly when the chips are on the line. Give me a break with this garbage slander of the 2nd greatest Rocket to ever put on a uniform.
     
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  2. DrNuegebauer

    DrNuegebauer Member

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    I do think there is some logic to the thought process of Tilman hiding cost cutting by saying "we are rebuilding". I can't see him moving on Harden - too hard to fill the seats if/when crowds are allowed.

    I could see Westbrook bringing back picks in the right deal (ie, take on an ugly salary from a team that is desperate for success - eg Blake Griffin; or a team desperate to show its fans it can bring in a star - eg Knicks - who have nothing but picks to offer)
    Tucker could be moved for whatever return possible (A contender might be willing to sacrifice a conditional first, or a young talent for PJ if they think it will get them over the hump. See Iguodala and the Heat.
    Gordon's shooting was woeful, but he has value as a playoff performer, and could net something (2nd rounder?)

    Beyond that, I don't see the Rockets being able to accumulate many more assets - it might be a season of developing whatever we can scrounge up, and then using those assets to contend in the future. Harden can certainly make discards look pretty good (House/ Green/ McLemore)
     
  3. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

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    Fine by me. This group is not a contender.
     
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  4. Roxfan4lyfe

    Roxfan4lyfe Member

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    I need Harden to be a Killer in the playoffs instead of the regular season
     
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  5. Reeko

    Reeko Member
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    u should’ve stopped right after those 1st 4 words

    what a fcking moron
     
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  6. Landsdale

    Landsdale Member

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    God I hope so.
     
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  7. blahblehblah

    blahblehblah Member

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    That was an excellent trade idea. There aren't many teams with the salary AND assets AND would possibly be interested in Harden.

    You are also correct about the salary matching (as long as the deal is officially signed AFTER the official start of the 2020-21 signing period whenever that is this year. Due to the Poison pill provision for rookie extensions.)

    Levert - 16.2 Prince - 13.9 Allen - 3.9 totaling 34 million would be enough to match Harden's 38 million.

    Nets throw in a handful of firsts and pick swaps and it looks like a fairly good deal.

    Westbrook, Levert, Prince, Gordon, Tucker, Allen would be decent/competitive team so the Rockets value won't completely tank.

    It would be interesting to see how Durant, Harden and Irving would fit and play together. I wouldn't favor them for the title but I'd love to see how it'd work. Its either a disaster or the nba's best display of ISO, scoring and talent. Which ever, it'd be awesome to see lol.
     
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  8. HardenVolumeOne

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  9. PrawnJ

    PrawnJ Member

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    not all clutchfans posters are smart - Exhibit A
     
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  10. BallSoHarden

    BallSoHarden Member

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    Using a profitability argument is tough, it is hard to really evaluate because we don't know what net income is for a winner in Houston or a comparable market vs a loser/rebuilding team in the same market, especially with the COVID variable. I do know every year Forbes or someone estimates net income for the most profitable team to be around $150mm, and the bottom teams usually lose money. Team valuations over the last decade also seem to value having true max stars signed for long term. If those valuations are tied to a multiple of net income, then you can assume having true max stars and profitability are correlated. Westbrook is probably not considered a true max star worth his contract, but Harden absolutely is.

    We have seen how much easier it is to get a second star when you have one, vs trying to get that one. Just look back at all of the ridiculous moves Morey made to get Harden. it reminds me of that guy who started with a paperclip and made 17 trades of increasing value on craigslist and ended up with a house.

    My assumption is that to remain profitable and relatively successful as the Rockets have managed to do (longest current playoff streak in NBA), you keep Harden and a bunch of scrubs, trade Westbrook. You start accumulating picks somehow, and by the time Harden is ready to retire or come off the bench at 38 years old for another contender, you have some assets to build from. I think this is how you maintain cash flow in the short and long term. If you are fielding a team at minimum payroll levels, you may be operating at more of a loss than with Harden + scrubs.

    If you have to decide whether to remain profitable vs be cash flow negative in the short term, there are options to gain liquidity if that is the issue. Tilman is likely levered to his eyeballs, but he has hard assets and real estate to use as collateral, and interest rates will remain low for years based on what the fed communicated yesterday. Low interest rate environments are usually beneficial to people in the industries he is involved in. He is likely refinancing everything he can and lowering his interest expense. He has the opportunity to maybe refinance and lock in long term rates much more favorable than he had a year ago, and that can help him immensely in a post Covid environment.
     
  11. tycoonchip

    tycoonchip Tilman has Aids!

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    If Harden is getting traded it better be for a Star that'll quickly make me forget we ever had the guy! You don't give up on a once in a lifetime talent that will probably still be good after his contract is up for nothing. The man isn't a drunk that lives in his mom's basement and eats potato chips all day while jerking when he's not playing or during off season. He is constantly working out and working on his conditioning and his game. That is someone that will be effective for a long time. Westbrook though... the day he's gone will be a glorious day! I HAVE a lot friends in my industry... they are just friends though and have no intentions to work with. I can get along with them but I know how they work and it just wouldn't work out!
    This is one of those relationships. They can go to a strip club during the offseason together. But they definitely don't need to be playing together during the season.
     
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  12. Jturbofuel

    Jturbofuel Member

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    They both might be untradable because of those super max deals. Would teams be willing to gut their rosters for a guy on the back side of his career ?
     
  13. Derp McFlopsky

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    Harden doesn’t play well with others. Trade Westbrook for a big who can shoot, hopefully a coach is hired that’s more interested in developing youth into meaningful roles instead of hoping a street free agent can save the rotation every year.

    Maybe let Rivers walk, even see if Tucker has value. I think Harden, Gordon starting at long last a guard (maximum fun) and Covington are a decent core to rework around, that’s where I would start.
     
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  14. MIAGI99

    MIAGI99 Member

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    Can they all go? Including Morey and Tillman too.
     
  15. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة

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    Harden and WB have to take paycuts.

    Bolster the roster with ball handlers and clutch shooters.

    Get younger.

    Morey should humble himself and demand off ball movements and a system featuring 3s and the midrange in the 4th Q.

    Tilman should shut up and invest more!

    It can work but they have to collectively get off their high horse and feature 'Skillball' with bigs.

    @Deuce
     
  16. sealclubber1016

    Supporting Member

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    Most of the league would give up a ton to get Harden, he immediately makes your team matter, which we've kind of gotten used to. We will in no way get equal value back (which is why we won't even try to trade him) but if he were made available all 29 teams would be more than willing to take him and his contract.

    Westbrook is an absolute anchor that nobody wants, we couldn't give him away.
     
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  17. thething

    thething Contributing Member

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    OKC has some nice picks to trade--Houston's!
     
  18. hakeem94

    hakeem94 Member

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    this is exactly what was being said about cp3 last year countless times....
    actually i can see several teams anxious and eager to trade for russ offering fine assets to get him, eventho theres no reason for rockets to trade him, cause he can play a huge role on a legit championship team...
     
  19. sealclubber1016

    Supporting Member

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    We traded CP3 and assets for a worse player and contract. We didn't give him away, we had to pay for someone to take him.

    Westbrook can only be traded for a worse player, we have no assets to attach.
     
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  20. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة

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    CP3 has something WB will never have, Bball IQ!

    WB got speed.

    WB got something CP3 has, injury.
     

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