1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

A point guard that is out there that we can actually get

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Alirules, Nov 22, 2007.

  1. Alirules

    Alirules Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2002
    Messages:
    429
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think a lack of a great point guard is really hurting this team. Andre Miller is out there to be had. Philli is rebuilding and they will take cash, draft picks, and throw ins for Andre Miller. I say trade Luther Head, Rafer Alston, Steve Novak, draft picks, cash for Andre Miller. Andre is a smart player, and thats what we need at point right now.
     
  2. Yaozer

    Yaozer Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    5,392
    Likes Received:
    2
    The rockets can get me for HALF the price JL3.
     
  3. bbjai

    bbjai Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    1,693
    Likes Received:
    11
    I don't understand how he would fit though

    His not a particularly brilliant shooter and really our PG needs to be able to defend. Miller is not one of those ppl
     
  4. emjohn

    emjohn Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2002
    Messages:
    12,132
    Likes Received:
    567
    Don't throw draft picks away like that. But Andre would be an upgrade over Head and James right not.
     
  5. ikarus

    ikarus Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    386
    Likes Received:
    0
    Let Tmac be the playmaker. If he doesn't shoot 6-19 all the time and also limits the number of shots, Rox will be a better team. Tonight, Tmac did well in making plays but he bricked a lot.

    TMac does not need to score a lot to prove he is the most valuable player of the team. He cares about scoring too much.

    tonight, if he went with 6-12 fg and 12 assts, Rox could really make better use of those 7 bricking shots.
     
  6. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    128,551
    Likes Received:
    38,775
    I would love Andre Miller.

    A smart PG with a midrange game that knows how to set the table and protects the ball.

    Oh man, he would be huge on this team.

    Get r done Morey.

    DD
     
  7. jerrios

    jerrios Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    174
    Likes Received:
    10

    this is actually a really good idea, philly is rebuilding, andre miller is a big point guard and i think everyone on this forum can agree that he's an upgrade over rafer. big point guard that can shoot.

    t-mac has never or will ever be the answer at point. he picks up his dribble everytime the moment he's about get trapped.
     
  8. 2deep

    2deep Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2007
    Messages:
    85
    Likes Received:
    0
    An upgrade as an overall player yes...for the rockets, not sure. If you think they leave Rafer open wait till you see what they do to a 20% career 3P shooter! Would love to have as a piece but I'm not sold that he's worth giving up alot for.
     
  9. JBIIRockets

    JBIIRockets Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2001
    Messages:
    6,358
    Likes Received:
    48
    Doesn't Kidd want out of Jersey?
     
  10. eman

    eman Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2002
    Messages:
    4,365
    Likes Received:
    1,917
    Play Aaron Brooks, please!

    If we aren't getting another PG, play T-Mac at the point. I've seen enough of Rafer, Mike, and Steve (in his prime) to know they aren't the PG solution.
     
  11. thadeus

    thadeus Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2003
    Messages:
    8,313
    Likes Received:
    726
    He's 31 years old, but still playing pretty well. I think this would be a good trade.
     
  12. abc2007

    abc2007 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    8,303
    Likes Received:
    64
    Yeah! That might be the best way.
     
  13. Tonaaayyyy

    Tonaaayyyy Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2002
    Messages:
    4,537
    Likes Received:
    149
    Andre Miller is the WAY!
     
  14. jogo

    jogo Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2003
    Messages:
    1,989
    Likes Received:
    1,323
    I looked at him earlier after hearing they were shopping him.

    No thanks. He can't shoot a 3. This is of paramount importance as a Rocket PG due to kickouts by Yao and Tracy. If you think Rafer can't shoot a 3, then you'll only be even more disappointed in Miller. Just not a good fit.
     
  15. smoothie

    smoothie Jabari Jungle

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2001
    Messages:
    20,716
    Likes Received:
    6,947

    actually this is a great time to throw away draft picks.

    notice that besides yao and shane, no one on the team is signed for more than 2 years after this one. this is not a mistake. when tmac's contract is up, everyone's is up. if need be, the rockets can completely rebuild around yao and steer away from an injury prone tmac.

    since there shouldn't be any new contracts added that last more than 2 years from this summer on, i would expect the rockets to find a way not to add a first round contract to the roster for the next 2 seasons. the third season being the one in which we can be under the cap.

    the way to avoid adding first round contracts is to either trade them or draft euro's and leave them overseas. well euro's being stashed overseas doesn't help the rockets win now. i would imagine that they are interested in trading the next two first round picks.
     
  16. Matchman

    Matchman Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,027
    Likes Received:
    1
    I want Stephon Marbury. His value is at an all-time low because of his craziness but he is really a top10 PG in this league if he can get his mind straight.
    I think Rafer Alston + Head + Cash will get it done.
     
  17. jopatmc

    jopatmc Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Messages:
    15,370
    Likes Received:
    390
    I think Jamaal Tinsley could be had too and he would also be an upgrade. But he's got a lot of baggage.

    Jayson Williams also could probably be had for Rafer, Snyder, and Head.

    I think Andre would be a great fit in Adelman's offense. A PG doesn't have to be a 3 point shooter. But he does have to have the ability to get his own shot and score fairly efficiently. Andre has great midrange game and he can break down the D and finish at the rim. Jamaal is a flat out mismatch for a lot of point guards in this league with his ability to post up. He's right there with Chauncey as one of the best post up point guards in the NBA.

    Wonder if Larry Hughes would fit in here and could he play the point?
     
  18. poprocks

    poprocks Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3,779
    Likes Received:
    0
    The case for Francis

    Adjusted Plus-Minus: An Idea Whose Time Has Come

    Adjusted Plus-Minus: The Basics

    By now, many basketball fans are familiar with the basic plus-minus concept, as it’s been showing up for years in game commentary at both the NBA and college levels. You might see it alluded to in a game graphic that looks something like this:

    Minutes Scoring Margin
    Miami Heat with Wade: 33 +14
    Miami Heat without Wade: 15 -11

    In essence, the plus-minus stat simply keeps track of the net changes in score when a given player is either on or off the court. Logically, of course, the players who make the greatest overall contributions to team success should be the ones with the largest positive plus-minus impact. Unfortunately, however, the plus-minus stat doesn’t always fare particularly well in the messy real world of NBA basketball. For one thing, some players spend most of their time on the court in the company of very good teammates, while others frequently play in tandem with much weaker players. The plus-minus stat doesn’t account for these inequities at all. Likewise, some guys always find themselves matched against the opponent’s best players, while others more often face the opposing team’s second unit. That’s another big problem as far as the plus-minus stat is concerned. What’s needed, of course, is some way of adjusting the plus-minus stat to account for all such potential confounds.

    This is exactly what the adjusted plus-minus stat does: it reflects the impact of each player on his team’s bottom line (scoring margin), after controlling statistically for the strength of every teammate and every opponent during each minute he’s on the court. Again, the gory mathematical details of the adjusted plus-minus model have been described elsewhere (and they are beyond the scope of this article) – but it’s worth noting that the model relies on the same basic mathematical/ statistical approach currently in widespread use by medical researchers and other scientists all over the world. For example, when an epidemiologist needs to estimate the relative risks posed by smoking, asbestos, and radon and to calculate the odds of contracting cancer on the basis of exposure to each respective hazard, he’ll invariably use the same basic type of statistical model. In other words, the adjusted plus-minus analysis is based upon a robust statistical approach that already provides a solid data analytic foundation for many branches of science and medicine1.

    These are the numbers based on 2006

    Francis is number 26 in the NBA +/- minutes
    McGrady is number 32 in the NBA +/- minutes
    Alston is number 55 in the NBA +/- minutes
    Wells is number 89 in the NBA +/- minutes
    Head is number 98 in the NBA +/- minutes
    James is number 146 in the NBA +/- minutes

    Obviously, the report on this statistical analysis is long and I won't get into all aspects and nuences of the report. To understand this report just click on the link. http://www.82games.com/ilardi1.htm. Anyone can see that Francis should be on the court based on this analysis.
     
  19. Tornadoofsoul6

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,316
    Likes Received:
    12

    He opted out of his contract, but I dont think we can afford his 1 year 20 mil contract.

    A few PG's hopefully we could get from free agency after this year/trade are:

    Gilbert Arenas
    Jason Kidd
    Cavs could dump Larry Hughes
    Mike Bibby
    Jamaal Tinsley (Possibly)
    Or a few of Chicago's guards if they dont get extensions/re-sign
     
  20. poprocks

    poprocks Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3,779
    Likes Received:
    0
    Actually, to be fair, Francis logged less than the requisite minutes to be included with players who logged more than 1640 minutes. Francis is number 26 on players who logged less than 1640 minutes. Still it is a good indicator of future success. The key stat is the +/- adjusted stat and predicts the impact a player has on the team. T-Mac gives you 3.45, Alston gives you 2.09, Wells -1.96, James gives you -3.15, Francis gives you 1.09, Head gives -.44. So ranking our guards in this way gives the following:

    T-Mac 3.45
    Alston 2.09
    Francis 1.09
    Head -.44
    James -3.15
    Snyder -3.53

    No data on Brooks cause he wasn't in the NBA last year.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now