Another thread inspired by the Mo Taylor whirlwind. There has been an awful lot of talk about Taylor's lack of defense and rebounding. If you look at the statistics, there is definite reason for concern. However, I feel I must reiterate and expound upon a point that I've seen made in other threads that I don't believe has gotten the respect and attention that it rightly deserves. He played for the Clippers, for Christ's sake. Charles, I believe, said it best when he said, "any knuckle-head can score." I believe this to be a true statement. Defense and rebounding, however, are not so simple. Defense, more than any other aspect of the game of basketball, is a team effort. You can be busting your a$$ out there to play the best kind of defense that you know how to play, but if your team plays poor defense collectively......well, you're up the proverbial creek. It comes down to whether or not a team is making the right timely and intelligent rotations and whether or not they are working together to get around the picks and switching off if need be.....along with a hundred other minute factors that directly relate to how well the team works together as a defensive unit. Now, we all know that team cohesiveness is a quality in which the Clippers are, and have been for a long time, sorely lacking. Now as for rebounding, the same sort of qualifications apply...though not as extensively. You can make up for a lack of cohesiveness with brute determination, moreso than you can with team defense. Now there could be any number of reasons why Taylor seemed to lack the fire required to put up impressive rebounding numbers in LA, and I don't deny that a change of venue may not spark or rekindle that needed fire. However, I think, in this case, we should give him the benefit of the doubt. He seems to honestly want to play here, if I'm to believe what I'm reading in other threads. And noone, I think, can deny that he possesses impressive talent. And, yes, that talent so far has manifested itself on the offensive side of the court. But a chance to sign such a talent for such a reasonable price......for only one year!!!!!.......I just think it's too good to pass up. And lord knows we've got noone currently to match him. So what's the debate? "He'll disrupt our chemistry", you say. To that, I say that Steve and Cat have a nice chemistry. And I've seen flashes of nice chemistry being demonstrated between other members of the team. But as for our overall chemistry, it wasn't enough to win half our games last year. A lot of you are extremely hot on Webber. Well, correct me if I'm wrong(and I'm sure you will), but I don't remember being too impressed with C-Web's defense early on in his carreer. I know, I know....he played for the Warriors. ------------------ "I'll take a Dream Shake for two, please."
just to add a cent or two... some people are saying the team's chemistry is a concern, and I have heard it time and time again here about chemistry being very important. I do agree that it is extremly important. That is why I can't understand some of these very same folks are quick to trade players like Wizard, who at the end of the year played very well with the team. I even read a post about letting Shandon go next year too. What the hell is this! Shandon took less money to come to Houston because we didn't have the money to pay him others had offered, and we want to get rid of a guy like that. We thought so much of him just a year ago when he did this, now it is, "let him go for a chance at M. Finley"? I call it a long shot. I like it when I hear guys talk good about their team mates, and that is what this group of guys always does. When ever Steve or Cat is in an interview they always mention their love for Shandon and Wizo. When the Rockets started winning at the end of last season, these guys played a big role in that. Signing Mo Taylor is worth a cheap one year risk. That is better than just sitting and waiting for a lottery pick or C-Web to play the free agent market. I'll leave with a triva question since so many are concerned about Mo's individual defense......What was the last team to win a NBA championship with the Defensive Player of the Year on the team? (i know the answer do you) ------------------
Gascon, So you're saying that Taylor played no defense and didn't rebound because it's just so depressing to be a Clipper? Interesting. Was he also upset about being a Michigan Wolverine? How do you explain his 6.1 reb/game at Michigan? Sorry, I don't buy this "it's the Clippers" theory. Why could Brian Skinner manage to average 8.3 reb/game in his starts last year? Why could Lamar Odom average 7.8 reb/game while playing on the perimeter? If Elton Brand can go out and average double figure boards for that wretched Chicago team he was on, I don't see why Taylor should be excused. ------------------
Aelliott, you are right, there is really no excuse for his lack of effort. But that is what it was, a lack of effort, NOT because he couldn't, but for whatever reason, he just staight up chose not to rebound and be aggressive. IMHO, Mo made these choices and he has to live with it. It is not because he can't be better, just the kind of scene he was in. Who , if anyone is a part of th Clips organiztion that would have been able to help mold him like rudy and co. Why not take him for the one year, if nothing else is guaranteed to him until after the season is over. I think Taylor would come here even if there wasn't a wink wink type deal after this season. He wants to play with the likes of Francis and Cat. ------------------ And tonight...From the Bank United Center...Your Houston Rockets and Miami Heat in Game 1 of the 2004 NBA Finals!!!!!
aelliot.... No, not at all. All I'm saying is that there are a helluva lot of factors that contribute to the end result of what a player's stats look like. I just think it's jumping the gun to be hanging the guy before we see what he can do in a Rockets uniform, assuming of course that he decides to sign with us. All of this, "there's no excuse" nonsense is just that. ------------------ "Have we not here the best cards in the game to win this easy match played for a crown?....." Bill Shakespeare
Aelliott brings up good points. He was not a stellar rebounder in college either. I am hoping he will improve within the Rockets system, but even if he doesn't....I will take his measly 6.5 boards and 17.1 ppg. Realize the effect he will have on our guard rotation. Another capable scorer, down low no less, who will take a lot of focus off Steve and Cat. The defense's double teams will have to be precise and timed perfectly to effectively defend our guards. Does anyone else see many many open jumpers for the guards, Langhi, etc.?? ------------------ HOOP-T ------------------
Im basically in agreement with aelliott on this Mo Taylor stuff. I noticed a lot of posts that say things like "well Mo could develop into a strong rebounder and defender with Rudy's help." or "Who could possibly play hard for the Clippers." All those imho are excuses and cop outs for a lack of effort. I wanted a frontcourt player like Fizer that really gets after it and is never questioned on his effort. However, to get a player like that, it would require moving someone like Cato, something I think is worth it, but obviously the Rockets dont so I'll live with that. Also, if Rudy thinks he can make Mo into a serious player, I respect his decision also. If Rudy wants to take a 1 yr experiment on this guy and see what happens with a change of scenery, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and see what happens. However, if Mo becomes a problem in the locker room with his whining, refusing to get off a team bus, etc. I will be very very pissed off, not as pissed off as I am about this whole Eckels episode though. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net [This message has been edited by MManal (edited August 11, 2000).]
A lot of people on this board remind of women who think they can change their man. "well once we are married he'll stop drinking" "He'll change". This is pathetic. If you want Mo fine, but don't think your going to get anything more than the player he has been his whole career. ------------------
I do not think 6.5 rpg is that bad...but he is a big, strong 6'9". I think he could do better. Someone quoted a statistic that only 24 players in the NBA even average over 8 per contest. So I see the 6.5 average as negligible when I see what else Taylor brings to the court. ------------------ HOOP-T ------------------
6.5 RPG is totally and completely unacceptable. Our PG, Steve Francis, grabs 5.3 RPG. Thats pathetic if your PF barely gets 1 more board than your PG. If Mo can up his rebounding total to 8-9 RPG thats one thing, but 6.5 is completely unacceptable. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
That's totally your opinion that he "chose" not to rebound. I think (and looking at his career seems to support this) that he actually CAN'T rebound. The guy is 6'9 and well muscled and has all the tools to be a good rebounder, but he just doesn't seem to have the knack of getting into the right spot at the right time. Look at Dan Langhi, he is 6'11 but not overly well built, he showed tremendous desire to go get the ball in college - what was his rebounding average? Just 6.3 (now that is better than Mo's 6.1 per game in college.) - Langhi had the desire, but it didn't get him a massive amount of boards. There's such a thing as a habit - all players have them and those habits are ingrained into your game (especially when those habits have been with you for the last 5 years). Either Mo Taylor is in the habit of not rebounding OR he just can't do it(or both). He just hasn't got the knack or the intuition to be where the ball is going to end up. The anti-Mo is Dennis Rodman. He knew where the ball would be and he got it. If you say that Mo should be able to get 8 boards a game because other big guys did, then doesn't it stand true that there should be LOTS of guys out there getting as many boards as Rodman did?? It's a stupid argument isn't it?? Rodman was a "natural", a rebounder. Mo is not a natural, he's just not a rebounder. But heck, for 2.25mill I'm willing to give him a shot - it's just that I don't expect him to bring anything more than 6.5boards per with him... ------------------ [This message has been edited by DrNuegebauer (edited August 11, 2000).]
I personally feel Mo can get it up to about 7.5, but anything higher than that, is pushing it. Compare his 98-99 rebounding to 99-00 98-99: 2.2 OFF, 3.1 DEF, 5.3 TOT, 32.7 MPG 99-00: 1.5 OFF, 4.9 DEF, 6.5 TOT, 35.9 MPG (note in 99-00 due to small percentages 1.5+4.9 comes up to 6.5) Notice his offensive board production DROPPED .7, even with some more minutes. That, IMO is a question of him not wanting to be a Clipper, and not putting forth his best effort (he already said he wasn't coming back prior to the season). According to Clippers fans at hoopsboards, Mo had a great attitude his first 2 seasons. Hypothetically, if you tack that .7 on to his current 6.5, that brings him up to 7.2, if he was on the Rockets, compared to the Clippers (who opponents averaged 47.7% FG% offf of), there would likely be at least another .3 to accumulate due to more opponent misses. Then if he works on his defense (just about anyone can be a mediocre defender, with the right physical tools, all he'd need to do is hold his position, he has the body for it.) and become even just below average, a 17-7.5 player at PF would be very helpful at 2.25, or 4.5 million per season. ------------------ The Serious Police are watching. Follow the rules or be assimilated. Shandon is underrated.
Nike: I agree, maybe he could get himself up to 7.5 boards per contest.. I'm not counting on it though I still don't think he'll ever be a good rebounder though. 7 - 7.5 should be ok provided that KT can find his rebounding heart that he left at New Mex and that Cato can learn how to hang onto the ball (although I don't hold out much hope of that happening ) ------------------
DrN-That's the other thing. It's a LOT easier to find a "spare parts" defense and rebounding PF (JYD and Feick are on the block), than it is to find a total package superstar. KT/Drew could probably get us one, and there's a chance T-Wash or Rogers could play that role. I don't think he'll be a good rebounder, but I think he can do better than 6.5. While I'm here, while everyone is questioning Mo's desire, how come nobody's questioning KT's desire? His desire was the exact thing that dropped his draft status. (Advertisement promoted by the "Kenny Thomas Should Not Be Starting" or KTSNBS) ------------------ The Serious Police are watching. Follow the rules or be assimilated. Shandon is underrated.
Oh geez, Nike... I usually like your posts, too. His rebounding went down .7 on the offensive end, yes. But guess what? His defensive rebounding went up 1.8 per game (over 50%) from the previous season. So what does that mean? He's pissed off on the offensive end, but really happy as hell on the defensive end? I think Lamar Odom's arrival may have something to do with that. His steals per game went from 0.35 in 98-99 to 0.82 in 99-00; he more than doubled his average there. That sure doesn't indicate he completely gave up. All you Mopologists need to just conceded the fact that he is what he is, probably will not get better, and I haven't seen any valid reasons as to why I should believe he'll get better. ------------------ Just shut up and post
Ouch. All I was doing was making the numbers say what I wanted them to say. You don't think he could pick up his rebounding by 1, or close to 1, if he wasn't ticked off at his whole team's management, and his opponent's didn't score at nearly 47.7%? For an attempt of a possible explanation, is the possibility that he became better at stumbling into rebounds (as I believe tcab put it?) but on offense, whenever he didn't get the ball, he said "forget it" and just walked back to the defensive end. Maybe? If Mo signed a 3 year contract starting at 4.5 mill (via S/T), would you be happy with it, as we'd then have his Big Bird rights? That'd also leave open the possibility of him working out with the Rockets, to possibly improve his rebounding/defense/intangibles if he doesn't on his own ------------------ The Serious Police are watching. Follow the rules or be assimilated. Shandon is underrated. [This message has been edited by NIKEstrad (edited August 11, 2000).]
I'm sorry, but am I the only one that doesn't think 6.5 rpg is THAT bad? ------------------ Who's ya daddy?
