Now I feel like I'm defending the FLDS. So I'm going to exit this thread and admit defeat. Nuke the Middle East and Asia!
I don't have a sacred cow tinman thing for him simply because he's a Rocket. Of course, I have no idea how old Olajuwon's wife was when they married.
I'm confused..you're used to me misunderstanding your posts?? I don't remember us having that difficulty before. Or you're grouping me in with someone else who misunderstood you?? I have no problem with addressing the real issues. I would completely agree that poverty is part of the problem here, no doubt. I don't believe global poverty is something I merely denounce and move on from either, though. This board doesn't allow for a deeper context than discussion...if there's more to the story for any one of us, you won't see it. But for me to pretend I'm not offended by a story like this...or that it doesn't pain me to think of a child or many children being treated like this...is absurd.
Sorry, that wasn't directed at you. It was a general statement... Who said you can't denounce or express dismay or even throw up when you read stories like this? That wasn't my intent at all. As I already stated, the only thing I protested was people's abilities on this board to diagnose the problem and assign the blame immediately and without giving it much thought. For instance, did anyone mention poverty or the fact that Yemeni laws (granted not the most 'progressive' in the world) prohibited this very act from taking place? Instead, you have airheads like Air Langhi who throws up something completely absurd and unaccounted for/unproven about a "religion of peace". There is simply little to no interest here in providing logical arguments, supported by facts in support of your position. As I've said before, with exception of very few (a handful, even) posters here, the overwhelming tendency in the D&D is seeking 'self-reassurance', mostly in regards to that individual poster's feelings of moral/cultural/national supremacy relative to the 'other', whether it's China or Europe or Islam or Venezuela or Christianity or even Atheism. There is very, very, very little 'honest debate' going on here. I don't presume otherwise.
Money =/= able to butt into their personal affairs. Just like a boss can't exactly mind his employee's personal life even if he writes the check. Sure, we can withhold our loot. But it seems to me that no president has done this for a while now. And they're much more knowledgeable about what goes on over there than we are. If our government doesn't give a rats ass, that kind of speaks to who we are too. I don't pretend to know deeply about Middle Eastern culture, because I've never lived there or know anyone from there. But I really don't know how often this happens. My point is that this sort of case should be settled domestically, in Yeman, by Yeman law. Which is what's happening. And that we, who does not understand the situation well, should not be butting in.
Complete bull****. "We" are not butting in. We are merely pointing out the horridness of a backwards culture that degrades women as nothing more than property. Tigermission's little rant notwithstanding, the core argument here is that that this kind of reprehensible activity is not excusable. Period. It's an affront to civilized society.
I don't want to defend this as I think its horrible but I don't think the law is allowing this. From the article it specifically said the girl was raped and what her husband did was illegal and they have jailed the husband and the father, who they considered not healthy enough to stand trial. From the article it doesn't sound like they are allowing this or condoning it.
Stroies such as these are common place throught the world, child abuse can be found in any country and culture, I don’t see this thread shedding any new light on anything new. From what I read in the article the investigaion is still in progress and appears the courts are not supporting this type of activity...what’s to debate? It seems this current trend on bashing/discriminating against Muslims isn’t going to stop anytime soon, nobody posted about the polygamist compound that was recently found in Texas. This thread is being discussed not because of the circumstances but due to the lack of knowledge of that part of the world..... 4 in 10 Americans admit to having negative feelings or prejudices against people of the Muslim faith..........this thread has a lot more to do with this than anything to do with the article. IMHO.
Wow! You're against child rape/sex slavery too? I thought I was the only one! I tip my hat off to you, sir. We need more courageous souls like yourself in this world. I would ask you what your idea of "civilized society" is but I think I've clearly annoyed you enough for one day...
It has nothing to do with religion, ethnicity, or whatever other goofy "woe is me, I feel persecuted" description you want to hang over this thread like a 400ft tall strawman. Either you are not listening, or you need to reevaluate your kneejerk response. and yes, I realize the irony given my very kneejerk response. I should have made it as clear as post 20 from the get-go.
Great. But instead of just saying that, you made it a point to lamblast people upset over this as being overtly bigotted. The only comment legitimately in that vein is air langhi's. If desiring an end to societies and cultures that debase women and restrain independence makes me a bigot in your ultra-sensitive world view, fine. I can't help that.
I might be splitting hairs here but I wouldn't say we need to end Yemeni society and culture but would like to see them end some of their practices. To tie this to the Tibet discussions I think everyone, including the Dalai Lama, has said it was good that feudalism was ended in Tibet but that doesn't mean the whole culture should be destroyed.
i don't wanna speak for rhad, but I don't THINK he was suggesting genocide was the answer! kinda out of character for him.
I didn't call anyone 'bigoted', and I didn't lambaste anyone over 'condemning' this act. Once again, you've completely missed the point. Ill-informed commentary was the problem, not bigotry. I am perfectly OK with old-fashioned bigotry and racism. I don't object to that. That's going a bit overboard, although I understand what you're getting at. I don't think you desired an "end" to American society just because we had a few problems that needed to be addressed. Once again, you're overreacting -- which seems to be a running theme in many of your responses. You seem too eager to 'simplify' matters in a way that makes it easier for you to categorize them into 'good' and 'bad'. I am somewhat familiar with Yemen and I agree that it's a society in need of major progress, on many fronts. If you're referring to this particular case, however, then it's a non-issue since a Yemeni court ruled this particular 'marriage' was illegal. In essence, this case was about a family that sold its child as a sex slave for a few bucks. Marrying pre-puberty girls isn't a widely accepted/sanctioned practice, even in Yemen. What's more common is marrying teenage girls (14-15 or thereabout) to older men who're well-off.
Her divorce was granted: http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/04/17/yemen.child.ap/index.html SAN'A, Yemen (AP) -- A Yemeni judge dissolved the marriage of an 8-year-old girl to a man nearly four times her age, and the girl's lawyer said Wednesday that the court also ordered the youngster removed from the control of the father who forced her into the wedding. The lawyer, Shatha Ali Nasser, said the girl is just one of thousands of underaged girls who have been forced into marriages in this poor tribal country at the southern tip of the Arabian Peninsula. The girl's story has drawn headlines in Yemen because she took the unusual step of seeking out a judge on her own to file for divorce. She recounted her ordeal to reporters Wednesday, a day after the judge in San'a ended the two-month marriage. Judge Mohammed al-Qady said he had been moved by the girl's plight from the start. The girl said her father forced her to marry a 30-year-old man she identified as Faiz Ali Thamer. She charged that her husband constantly beat her and forced her to have sex. "I used to run from room to room to escape from him. But he would catch up with me," the girl said, her tiny frame swallowed in an oversized robe and head scarf, standing with her lawyer. In issuing his ruling Tuesday, the judge said he was terminating the marriage because the girl "had not reached puberty." A provision in Yemeni law allows parents to sign marriage contracts for children younger than 15. However, the article states that a husband can only consummate the marriage when the wife reaches puberty. "We know that this is not what happened" in the girl's case, her lawyer said. There are no provisions for any punishment for a husband in such cases. The girl's name isn't disclosed in line with Associated Press policy on sexually related cases. She said that when she told her parents of the abuse, they refused to help her. Her parents testified they ignored her complaints about the marriage. The girl's family was ordered to pay $250 as "compensation" to Thamer, although the judge did not specify the reason.
Even though she was granted the divorce a couple of things still stick out as completely ignorant to me. 1. The girl's family refusing to help her and testifying as such. 2. The girl's family was ordered to pay $250 to the "husband" for compensation. Are things so bad in this country parents would do this to their children and not listen to their pleas for help? So the wife is nothing more than a possession that can be compensated for?
I think this little girl was extremely brave! I hope she finds someone to watch out for her that can feed that bravery and strength!!!!!
