[60 Minutes] Is the Two State Solution Over?

Great video. It really showed the truth of every day life. The only solution to this problem is one democratic secular state. Unfortunately, many radical Jews will never let that happen.

 

There are radicals on both sides that will never let that happen. Hamas ain't exactly the Boy Scouts either.

 

Hamas has no control over the West Bank which is what most of this piece was about.

 

wow thats ****ing crazy... israeli soldiers just go into their homes whenever they want and live there for days? WTF sounds like some ****ed up 1776 crap. I would be irate, but it looks like that family just accepts it.

 

I don't see if the video is the entire piece, I'm at work and don't want to watch but i saw it last night. One of the more interesting things, was that palestinians, since they are restricted from moving in are having more kids to keep up with the Jewish population. that story is really crazy on how they live. the palestinians can't use the new highways that cut through their areas. the wall incorporates some of their area and splits some farmland.

I have stayed out of the isreal/palestine threads because I don't know much about the situation, other than the basics of what the conflict is about, but this story really was pro-palestinian as far as what they go through.

 

I think there are a variety of opinions on both sides. The majority of Palestinians, in my view, would be quite happy with a 2-state solution based, roughly, on the 1967 borders. It's not just settlers that make this difficult. One also has to consider the security wall, which in effect served as a unilateral annexation of Palestinian territory. And however desirable a 2-state solution might be compared to the current situation, many Palestinians still aren't willing to concede the right of existence of an Israeli state as a matter of principle. I think Israelis perceive this to be a severe threat.

That doesn't mean that Palestinians aren't willing to compromise, but accepting the moral legitimacy of Israel's creation (and expansion after the 1948 war) is something else entirely. Would the Cherokee nation have been willing to compromise after being pushed out of their homes? Sure, they signed a number of treaties with the US early in our history. Does that mean they were obliged to accept the moral legitimacy of the US existing on their land? Of course not.

 

The tide is turning. I don't think a program like this would have been shown on the mainstream media a few years ago. A "Jewish" state privileging just that one ethnic/religious group is certainly not an American concept-- more akin to Saudi Arabia.

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The face of Obama's family is quite different. The extended family includes whites and the descendants of black slaves, Africans from Kenya, Indonesians, Chinese from Canada, Christians, Muslims, and even one Jew (a converted African-American). The two first names of the president himself, Barack Hussein, are Arabic.

This is the face of the new American nation – a mixture of races, religions, countries of origin, and skin colors, an open and diverse society, all of whose members are supposed to be equal and to identify themselves with the "founding fathers." ... That is the perception of a modern nation, multicultural and multiracial: a person joins it by acquiring citizenship, and from this moment on is the heir to all its history.

Israel is the product of the narrow nationalism of the 19th century, a nationalism that was closed and exclusive, based on race and ethnic origin, blood and earth. Israel is a "Jewish State," and a Jew is a person born Jewish or converted according to Jewish religious law (Halakha). Like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, it is a state whose mental world is to a large extent conditioned by religion, race, and ethnic origin.

When Ehud Barak speaks about the future, he speaks the language of past centuries, in terms of brute force and brutal threats, with armies providing the solution to all problems. That was also the language of George W. Bush who last week slinked out of Washington, a language that already sounds to the Western ear like an echo from the distant past.

The words of the new president (Obama)are ringing in the air: "Our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please." The key words were "humility and restraint."

Our leaders are now boasting about their part in the Gaza War, in which unbridled military force was unleashed intentionally against a civilian population, men, women, and children, with the declared aim of "creating deterrence." In the era that began last Tuesday, such expressions can only arouse shudders.

Between Israel and the United States a gap has opened this week, a narrow gap, almost invisible – but it may widen into an abyss.

http://www.antiwar.com/avnery/?articleid=14134

 

its just really difficult to defend israeli policies that are intentionally created to make life hell for palestinians so they might just get fed up pick up and leave

no peoples in the world would accept such slave like treatment and daily humiliation and subjegation

60 minutes has been extremely pro israel over the years so its really weird how they would do a segment like this that would highlight palestinian suffering in the "good" part of palestine (remember that moderate ally of ours abbas? the guy who is not a terrorist? well this is where much of this shiat is happening. so much for moderation. at least hamas managed to convince israelis to wash off there hands from gaza with its settlements). i still remember when 60 minutes did an entire segment on israeli air force with so much pride and happiness as if they were talking to and about american pilots it was really weird

 

Like someone else said, Hamas has no power in the West Bank. Most in the West Bank are more liberal than their counterparts in Gaza and would be elated to live peacefully with Israel. It's the settlers who are making peace impossible.

 

livni at one point pretty much indicated she would support deporting all 1.5 million arab israelis out of israel so i wont hold much hope out she would be brave enough to do it

but yeah these extremist jews wont allow it to happen including the extremist pro settler ben netanyahu

here the chief military rabbi for israel calls for soldiers to have no mercy

 

I think it is and has never really been an option.

Thomas Friedman disagrees but does say we are very close to the 2 state solution becoming no longer viable

 

Its a good piece and anyone who looks at the Palestinian Israeli conflict as being mostly about Israelis defending themselves against genocidal Palestinians should see that piece.

I don't want to nitpick the piece but they were incorrect in noting that the only pitched battle in Israel between Jews was three years ago. Actually there was quite a fight between settlers and the Israeli Army in the last Sinai settlement that was dismantled after the 1979 Camp David Accords.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/yamit.html

I have no doubt that if West Bank settlements are dismantled there will be similar fights.

My own idea for a solution to this is to cut off foreign aid to Israel. The settlements are a drain on the Israeli economy and I don't think Israel could continue to sustain settlement expansion or even maintaining the security and infrastructure of them if they couldn't afford them. At the same time I don't think cutting off aid to Israel will mean that Israel proper is destroyed since they have nukes and will continue to have a technological edge on the Arab states. It just means that they are going to have to concentrate resouces on defending Israel proper than on settlements.