I will not post anymore until the draft but I am leaving you guys with this.... Chicago,Clippers,and Rockets are gonna make a huge Blockbuster trade Via Ming.... Enjoy your Ming dynasty for about 10 minutes.... Steve will get what he wants.......... Now I am gonna go enjoy my memorial day weekend and will be back when draft day arrives. Oh yeah one more thing this will be announced in a few days but Rockets hit a huge snag with China about Yao. Thanks to those who stood behind me and for those who doubted me and called me every name in the book you will eat more than crow come draft day.......I hope you choke on it.
How gracious of you! Troy, speaking as someone who has been in plenty of BBS b****-offs, I can see how you might be upset that your credibility is being questioned. Still, you have escalated mere NBA draft speculation into a noxious spew of bad will that has sapped a lot of the joy and excitement of the Rockets good fortune in getting the # 1 pick. At least for me. If you are right and everyone else is wrong about this matter, is it still worth the ego trippin' and ugly attitude that you have introduced along with the possibly great information?
So who are the players in the trade, and who gets what? ... brainstorming ... ... Ming, Williams, Curry, Odom, #8/12, (KandiMan?), (Mobely?), (Thomas?), (Crawford?), (Fizer?) (Norris?) (Cato?)... Let's see... what works... #1: LAC gets #2 for Williams, Fizer CHI gets #1 for Ming, #8, #15, Thomas, Norris, Brown HOU gets #12, Curry, Odom #2: LAC gets Curry, Mobely, Fizer CHI gets #1 for Ming, #8/12, Thomas, Norris HOU gets #2 for Williams, Odom, Kandi #3: LAC gets Curry, Crawford, Fizer CHI gets #1 for Ming, #2 for Williams, Thomas, Cato HOU gets #8/12, Odom, Kandi If we ended up with option #3, we could end up giving up our #1, Thomas and Cato, and getting Odom, Kandi, 3 of Butler/Wilcox/Tskitishvilli/Hilario/Gooden/Stoudamire/Woods/Marcus. Lets say we took Wilcox, Hilario and Stoudamire, Dixon in 2nd round. (Still could also sign a Free Agent w/Middle Exception, such as Lee Nailon) Option #3 could give us: Olowakandi/Hilario/Stoudamire Griffin/Taylor/Wilcox Odom/Rice/TMo Mobely/Torres/Dixon Francis/Norris/Brown Option #2 could give us: Olowakandi/Cato Griffin/Taylor/(one of Stoudamire/Hilario/Marcus/Haislip/Ely) Odom/Rice/TMo Williams/Torres Francis/Dixon Option #1 would give us: Cato/Curry/(one of Hilario/Marcus/Stoudamire) Griffin/Taylor/TMo Odom/Rice Mobely/Torres Francis/Dixon These are just wild guesses, but they solve problems for each team, improve each team, and all worked in Real GM...
I have no inside info. My knowlege of basketball is limited to pickup games, 10 years ago in the past prior to herniating a disk. I believe in a participatory management style in the work place. However,when it comes to winning championships the LA Lakers are instructive. Shaq and Kobe by all accounts don't hang out together. They both want to be top dog in all regards. Prior to winning the championships they wanted to have their own team to highlight themselves. Now they realize it is better just to win and be co top dogs. I sure hope this isn't about Steve getting his ego and who he likes to hang with in the way of what is best for the Rockets in the medium to long run. Steve in my mind is an All Star, but is not a Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Garnet, Hakeem (in his prime) or even a Kidd, yet. Basing our personnel moves largely on his desires, when he is not at the level of a top franchise player, is problematic. We could conceivably extract enough talent from the Clippers and or the Bulls, probably the two teams with the best young talent, in the league to make the trading of even the next great center reasonable. It might even be less risky, if the ultimate goal is to at least be a contender. It could however, be more risky if the goal is to win it all with two or three solid players rather than the next great center. One thing is for sure this is just another example of the tremendous value that basketball people put on Yao Ming. Nobody is getting this rapt up in acquring Jay Williams, Dunlevy or Butler.
Of Sherlocks scenarios I like the #1 the best. Though I'm not shure it would be better for us than just drafting Yao.
Troy: Information is power. Disinformation sometimes is almost as powerful. At this juncture, the board doesn't know which is which. I don't think anyone means to be uncivil -- some posters just get carried away with their passions. I'm just a fan, not an insider or power on the board. Like most members, I read virtually all the posts and try to sort out the trends. The foremost thought to keep in mind is that we all want what's best for the Rockets long-term (strategy), even though we sometimes disagree on how to get there in the short term (tactics). Now, I was trying to work out the scenario that your post would seem to engender: Houston sends #1 and Moochie to Chicago. Houston sends Cato to the Clippers. Chicago sends #2 and Fizer to the Clippers. Chicago sends Rose and #30 to Houston. Clippers send Olowokandi, #8 and #12 to Houston. Clippers send Odom to Chicago. Houston gets Rose, Kandi, #8 (Nikki T?) and #12 (Stoudemire?) and drafts Marcus with our own #15 and Dickau (#30). Chicago gets #1 (Ming); Odom and Moochie to backup Crawford. The Clips get #2 (Williams); Fizer and Cato.
You forgot this trade..... Chicago sends Curry to Houston for the rights to Ming and its obligations for two second round picks Chicago sends its #2 pick (Jay Wiiliams) to Clips Houston sends Rice, KT and Collier to Clips Clips sends Kandi, Brand #8 and #12 to Houston Future trade: Houston sends Mo T, T MO, #8, #12, #15 to Memphis and releases Memphis from its second round obligation to us Memphis sends Battier, Swift and its #4 to Houston Starting rotation: Kandi/Curry/Cato Brand/Swift Griffen/#4 (Dunleavy or Butler) Cat/Battier Francis/Norris
Thats some amacing trades ROCKET!!! but I really can't see Chicago, LA and Memphis letting us rip them of like that.
I'm only mildly interested in a trade if it involves us getting Curry (and you want to talk about potential busts -- he could easily become Oliver Miller or Kevin Duckworth.) Outside of Curry, forget it. We have a once -in-a-decade opportunity with the top pick, and we need to come out of this with a center. Athletic 3s come and go.
Interesting. If this is true, then Ming better end up in Chicago. I don't want him out West. Williams will be in LA. And we would end up with at least Odom. I might guess Odom and Hilario, if Hilario's available at #8. Hell, 180,000,000 Brazilians is a consolation prize for 1,300,000,000 Chinese. Yao Ming has to go first in the draft. It's a face thing for the Chinese. Considering how the Clips held Maggette and Odom out of games last year (I know, they were injured ), then maybe Maggette is bait, too. Anyway we can dump a sucky contract in the process?
Enjoy your holiday Troy. You're such a charming young man. You know, just for future reference, people appreciate it more, when someone tests the interest for information, then teases, then delivers pieces of the puzzle one at a time by confirming guesses. This makes for an engaged, playful conversation. This tends to work better than jamming a bid wad down the throat. Works that way with ladies, too.
Olowokandi can not be involved in draft day trades because he is a Qualifying Offer FA. It is against the CoBA to draft day trade FA's. It is possible to do the trade after the FA signing period but there could be problems forcing a team to keep a drafted player they took for some other team. Here is a goofy example, but it's true. The Washington Wizards are under the cap and start to bid up the price on Kandi-man forcing the Clipps to sign him for a much higher amount than the receiving team wants to pay and forces another player to be involved in the deal to balance contracts. What if the Knicks are PO'd and make an offer for Jahidi or Kwame eliminating a backlog at C for the Wiz? The Rockets have just drafted Jay Williams when they would have preferred Ming but must now find a deal for Williams which matches the Clipps/Bulls deal. IMHO, there are to many stumbling blocks to include Olowokandi in trades with draft picks. It's not going to happen.
Gater, a lot of us forgot about Kandi being a restricted FA. Looks like you're back to being the "draft day god" favorite. However it shakes out the Rockets need a "Top Five" center and a sweet shooting SF. That's why I manipulated my trade proposal to get Rose over Odom, even though (OMG!) he's 30.
Bored, errr, Board: How about the changes to the "trade?" Houston sends #1 and Moochie to Chicago. Houston sends Cato to the Clippers. Chicago sends #2 and Fizer to the Clippers. Chicago sends Chandler and #30 to Houston. Clippers send Darius Miles, #8 and #12 to Houston. Clippers send Q. Richardson to Chicago. Houston gets Chandler, Miles, #8 (Nikki T?), #12 (Stoudemire?) and #30 (Dickau?). We draft Marcus with our own #15. Chicago gets #1 (Ming); Q. Richardson and Moochie to backup Crawford. The Clips get #2 (Williams); Fizer and Cato. The big question is whether Chandler can bulk up to play C. Our lineup thus looks like: C -- Chandler, Marcus, Collier PF - Griffin, Taylor, Thomas SF - Miles, Rice, Morris, Nikki T (seasons a year in Europe) SG - Mobley, Torres, Walt Williams PG - Francis, Dickau, TBrown
For the last time, the Bulls are not trading Chandler, Curry, Rose, or anyone to move up to #1. The Bulls want Jay Williams. If he doesn't fall to #2 you can bet the pick will be traded. Just be realistic, Chandler and Curry aren't going anywhere, especially not for Ming.
So Cato stays- like Steve "the little Napoleon" Franchise sez ? ... grrrrr. What do we get, then? Odom plus 8? 12 ? Add a baby bull? Ming to Chi. They must want an extra pick to play, too! 12, 15? J Will to Clips. They need a player. TBest ? Mooch? With Kandi and McInnis likely to walk? McInnis can go will JWil, but don't Clips get a baby bull or Cato or maybe Miller? I don't get it. This deal is kind of messy. The 8-15 picks are nice, but not the meat of the deal. Each team needs replacement players for their tradebait to make it work. If we get Odom, Butler and Stodemire, maybe ok, but I bet we get some crap instead. I'd rather take Ming. I like the team better with Ming. The game plan is much simpler. With those other talents - I'm afraid we'd still be schoolyard iso crap. Maybe 50 wins of schoolyard iso, but still directionless, no discipline junk that can't win it all.
