27 Israeli pilots to refuse missions in West Bank, Gaza

Thanks for the info.

But may I ask, do you have some kind of personal agenda against Israel? It seems like almost every single one of your posts is in some way directed against them. Would you care to share the story behind what it is that motivates you personally? Honest question. Thanks.

 

Ya think?

 

During war, compassion can be a fleeting commodity. These guys should be commended for standing up for what they believe.

 

Although Lil often makes insane and insensitive comments, he does occasionally bring up good points for discussion. He may be trying to offset some posters here who don't seem care for the Palestinians and broadly paints them as practitioners of a violent religion.

For those pilots to let their conscience rule, they should be commended. Do what they think is right. However, if more Jews die because of their refusal to follow orders, it will be on their conscience.

 

Now if only we can get those silly homicide bombers from blowing up Israelis in the street we might be on to something. Seldom, if ever but this merits it ...

 

Acting hateful in response to hateful actions does not somehow 'balance things out'.

 

Their big "protest" is insignificant because most if not all of them fly no missions over the "occupied territories." And they should be booted out of the service posthaste. No military has room for malcontents like that, especially ones who are squeamish about doing their job. No one wants to kill innocent civilians, but to make an omelet, you have to break a few eggs. And no one wants another man in the foxhole or a wingman unable or unwilling to follow orders and pull the trigger.

 

Fair enough. Israelis are justified in killing Palestinian civilians because they're making an "omelet."

But your vaunted Omelet Theory also justifies the Palestinian bombers who kill innocent civilians -- they're just "breaking a few eggs." If it's OK for Israelis to make omelets, it must be OK for Palestinians, too.

I guess, per the Omelet Theory, the 300 dead Americans are just broken eggs in the Iraq omelet, too.

 

Doesn't Israel have conscription?

 

The difference is, GV76, that the Israelis don't go purposely targeting civilians, only bomb-strapped "Palestinians" do that. And GV76, you WILL lose people in war. Bush never said the war would be painless and without casualties. The trick is that you kill more of the other bastards that they kill of yours.

 

Well actually EVERY Israeli is required to serve in the military, so essentially every Israeli (except a few exempt religious sects ) was or will be in the Military.

So a club full of 18-21 year olds are probably mostly people in the army. How is that different from attacking a 'militant' and wiping out a city block in the process??

I don't agree with it but your logic is flawed.

And I think Israeli's would understand the concept of "Not Just Following Orders" better than most after their WWII experience.

 

I guess those thousands of Palestinian children and women killed in bombing raids were *actually* soldiers.

Oh, but death only counts if you *mean* it, right? Israel kills civilians in bomb raids, but there's probably a soldier in there somewhere, so all those dead civilians are just collateral damage. Got it.

The only difference between Palestinian violence and Israeli violence is that one side wears a uniform. Same results, same cycle, same hate.

 

So 305 dead Americans is a reasonable price to occupy Iraq?

 

Actually it may be in terms of net lives.

If oil prices are lower, costs to business decreases and employment directly rises. Statistically, for every 1% rise in the unemployment there are 5,000 more heart attacks, 1,500 more homicides and over 500 more suicides.

Unemployment rates and the price of a commodity such as oil does affect the lives of our people though not in as *direct* a fashion.

 

Iraq's oil industry is several billion dollars worth of investment away from being at anywhere near capacity and several years away from breaking even, as well as several billion dollars and several years away from having anything other than a miniscule effect on oil prices, especially if they join OPEC.

 

So, looks like Lil is not answering my question.

Lil, what about the suicide bombers? Do you have any news of some refusing their missions?

 

Can you back up these claims with evidence? The accuracy of these claims is in doubt.

 

I guess you get your news from that so-called "free Palestine.org" site, eh? There have not been thousands of deaths of "Palestinian" civilians. The so-called Jenin massacre was a complete farce. How can you morally equivicate deliberately targeting innocents by the Palestinians with accidentally killing a few of them by the Israelis? The Hamas assholes have no such qualms about killing civilians, in fact, that is their favorite target.

And FD, if Israel wasn't surrounded by countries that have pledged to kill all the Jews and drive them into the sea, they wouldn't need to be as mobilized as they are. Just because everyone has to serve doesn't make every single person in Israel a reasonable target.

And GV76, by your rationale, there is no reason to spill American blood ever....It is horrible losing people, but that's war. What we accomplished I'd like to think it was worth it, but if we withdraw too early, we will dishonor the fallen and make their sacrifice a useless one. And to those who cry "quagmire" on Iraq, last time I checked we are STILL in the Balkans to this day.

 

Indeed I can, some of these claims are traceable back to the Baker Institute, of which you doubtless have knowledge from your alma mater:

Some excerpts:

http://money.cnn.com/2003/04/16/news/economy/war_oil_primer/