http://medicaldaily.com/news/20120526/10049/alcohol-suicide-death.htm I'm not against the banning of alcohol... but I wonder if the numbers would be less appalling if mar1juana was a viable legal option for these people?
Is it really that alcohol makes people suicidal or is it that suicidal people are more likely to drink, either because of their depression or using "liquid courage" to aid them in committing an act they may not follow through with if sober?
It might be a worthless study; I don't know. But I hate that saying about causation and correlation and I hate how the "NOT" is always in CAPS, either actual or implied, because it is flatly wrong. It is certainly true that they are not always the same thing, but that doesn't mean that they never are. As someone that has to report on my experience of psychiatric medications in order that my prescriptions do more good than harm to me, it is an especially frustrating thing to be told. It is even more so for the suggestion that I wouldn't know, as anyone would, that causation and correlation are not always the same thing. That -- the fact that they are not always the same thing -- is so obvious as to hardly be worth saying. Nothing personal, but that (false) maxim is a real pet peeve of mine.
I certainly think that liquid courage is a factor here. But also, I wonder how many of these suicides relied somewhat on alcohol in order to be successful. If one is to attempt suicide from an overdose of pills, for example, he is much more likely to succeed if he also drinks a lot of alcohol. I'm not that interested in a study that doesn't weed those people out, as at least one of the implications of the findings is that some of these people might not have committed suicide had they not been drunk and therefore impulsive. But a great many of suicides that are found with alcohol in their systems will have it as a result of a quite sober decision to end one's life with pills and alcohol, especially as it is one of the most (if not the most) peaceful methods one might use. If I were to die by my own hand I wouldn't want to be drunk while doing it. But I might prefer being drunk during it to dying by a more violent means, and I would especially prefer being drunk if I was planning on dying by violent means.
Even if "done right", these studies are useless because they can only backtrace to 3 or 4 (if even) causes when the data needed for pure accuracy involves the scope of something like the victims donating their bodies to science or having a maintained journal/self eval. It's one of those, "I drink because I'm sad or I'm sad because of drinking" types of things. If anything, these stupid non-conclusive studies is only gasoline to an ongoing political debate that isn't going anywhere until the tech is there to expose facts that isn't socially convenient or transparent enough to freely expose itself.
Using the data presented it is impossible to seperate causation and correlation. It is dangerous, and often times used in headlines. Perhaps you can tell the difference between the two terms, but it is my experience that many people fail to make the distinction... The jump from a higher than average percentage of suicides are intoxicated to alcohol causes an increase in suicide is a major one. No offense taken.
I am wondering why . . .since they pocking around in these folx's blood they did not post the percentages on any other drugs? How many were on meth? Heroin? Cocain? Weed? but In truth . . . I am more interested in how many were on LEGAL drugs. Zoloft? Xanax? etc If you going to do the study . . . why not be thorough. Rocket River
I don't think any drug should be banned but when you consider the relative hazard to oneself and others, alcohol is more dangerous than even cocaine or heroin.
Also, I'm surprised the number of drunk suicides isn't much, much higher. First there are those for whom it is part of the method of death. Next there is the liquid courage factor. Next there is the group that probably say hey, I'm committing suicide tonight and I like being drunk so I think I'll be drunk while I do it. And finally there is the thing that I guess the study sort of meant to suggest, which was that drunk people are more likely to engage in dangerous, impulsive behavior (which they are). If I'd have guessed, I would have put the number upward of 75% legally drunk at the time of suicide. The 25% number is, to me, surprisingly low.
gonna have to disagree considering heroin has just as close of a lethal dose to it's effective illicit dose as alcohol but comes with the extra complication of wildly varying and unknown strength. Plenty of college students have died from alcohol poisoning but Len Bias died of just a few lines because his new found wealth bought much stronger drugs
If one has knowledge of the strength of the drug and if one can afford to get his fix, in other words if you happen to be loaded, a heroin addiction is basically not even bad for you. You don't hear a lot of stories about deaths resulting from heroin-high driving. Alcohol also leads to violent behavior, which those other drugs typically do not. It's not just about the damage to one's own liver or whatever but the relative danger of drunk people to society.
Other than the spread of disease and typically more serious drug dealers, I would argue that a drunk is a more imminent threat to the public than a heroin addict. People on heroin usually have no desire to fight, drive or do much of anything.
