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2024 roster

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by IdStrosfan, Jun 18, 2023.

  1. Hemingway

    Hemingway Member

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    Brown, Javier, and Framber are still young players. No need to panic. I do believe Javier should spend the off-season developing a reliable third pitch or become a reliever. Framber has been great before his flameout near the end of this year. He is not a guy I would be looking to un-load unless you get a real haul for him. Brown will be an ace in this league and looked like a rookie of the year candidate early on. He is a guy I would not even give a second thought to trading.
     
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  2. lnchan

    lnchan Sugar Land Leonard
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    I am in favor of running it back... the team just needs to stay healthy. I have faith that Pena gets over his sophomore slump, and fewer intentional suboptimal lineups gets this team hovering to 95-100 win range.
     
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  3. IdStrosfan

    IdStrosfan Member

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    I think with McCullers and Garcia back, this team still has the talent to compete for a playoff spot.

    If a run producing OF bat ( to combat a weakness vs RHP) and at least 1 good RP are added and the players are used optimally then it should be a World Series contender again.
     
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  4. Hemingway

    Hemingway Member

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    I don’t think McCullers should even be in the discussion, but you are absolutely right. That is about all we need. Adding Diaz and McCormick into the daily lineup, surely less injuries, replacing Neris, and adding an OF bat against RHP, puts us right back as favorites. If something great falls in our lap, fine, but there is no need to blow this team up. 7th straight ALCS with a s**t manager and our best 2 players hurt for a significant part of the season, does not seem like a regressing team to me.
     
  5. Marshall Bryant

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    I hate selling low on players, but that's always the ones involved in trade discussions. It's called recency bias. Unfortunately it also looks a lot like those with declining or diminished skills. The only way to find out is to look back in a few years.

    This is why I'm not wringing my hands over J Abreu yet. 2023 is so far out of his normal, even after accounting for a typical age related decline, that I still expect him to be worth his contract.

    Tucker is hot and cold, but will never be confused with Brantley as a professional hitter. I use the term "professional hitter" as steady production with minimal highs and lows. Statistically, they may end up at the same place, but they get there over time after a much larger emotional drain. He's more like Altuve at the plate. He alternates between carrying the team and being a hole in the lineup.
     
  6. Marshall Bryant

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    Dusty wasn't worthless, but was worth less than potential replacements. But his divisiveness was due to his stubbornness (unmerited favoritism/lineups), not his pigment.
     
  7. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking
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    I think worthless means zero worth. Dusty had negative worth to us last year -- so actually worse than worthless. He soured the team spirit by stubbornly trying to prove a season-long point and it cost us a title and his job.
     
  8. The Beard

    The Beard Contributing Member

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    1. McCullers: While I fully understand the sentiment that we will never get anything else out of him, i'm quite a bit more positive in my expectations there than most. He never got the surgery before and wasted a couple of seasons trying to get it better through "rehab". He finally got the issue surgically repaired. Now i'm not saying he is going to give us 100+ innings of quality pitching this year, but he should be throwing by the end of the month. I feel better about him going into this coming year than I have either of the last two years. Plus, we have enough depth to get us to September, if he can be back by then he could be a serious weapon down the stretch and into October
    2. Javier: He doesn't need a 3rd pitch to be an effective starter. He has already proven that. Javier was worn down before the year started. He went from 50 innings in 2020 to 100 in 2021 to 150 in 2022, pitching into November then not having an offseason really as he ramped up for the WBC. People who discount the WBC on him because of so few innings pitched aren't considering the fact that between the World Series and then getting ready for the WBC, he had basically no offseason. Javier will never be a guy who is likely to give you 7+ innings on a given night, but he can, and likely will, be a guy who can regularly give you 5+ dominant innings, which in today's version of baseball is incredibly valuable

    What we really need is
    1. A utility bat who can play 3B/1B, if he can play more than that great, but ideally needs to be one that fits our platoon needs. Doesn't need to be a high dollar stud, needs to be a solid mlb type to keep us from having to play some of the really bad players we have had to throw out there
    2. Steady up the pen. Going and getting a guy who has proven he would be a great 7th inning guy isn't likely to happen, we won't spend the money for that (not trying to be anti-Crane, but he isn't likely to go into the tax as he has shown already, and he certainly won't do it for a 7th inning type) but Brown could go find a high upside arm that has struggled but one that our pitching coaches and analytics guys think has the potential to step up
    3. Backup catcher who won't rock the boat, will provide good defense and would be a good mentor for Diaz. As great as Mandonado was apparently viewed by the staff and Dusty, he wasn't likely a great mentor for Diaz as he was upset Diaz was there. You could tell when he was asked about Diaz he was not happy with the whole situation. We need a guy who wants to be a veteran mentor, defender and supporter of a potential super star

    I wish Crane was willing to go into the tax. I love the fact that we have built this team over from the ground up. We have developed these guys ourselves, not gone out and bought them. But I do wish he would be willing to spend on one more star level bat for LF. It's not gonna happen though. So let's get these few things done, come back wtih a great manager, and do WHATEVER is needed to make sure the rangers never, ever, win anyther title
     
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  9. The Beard

    The Beard Contributing Member

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    1. McCullers: While I fully understand the sentiment that we will never get anything else out of him, i'm quite a bit more positive in my expectations there than most. He never got the surgery before and wasted a couple of seasons trying to get it better through "rehab". He finally got the issue surgically repaired. Now i'm not saying he is going to give us 100+ innings of quality pitching this year, but he should be throwing by the end of the month. I feel better about him going into this coming year than I have either of the last two years. Plus, we have enough depth to get us to September, if he can be back by then he could be a serious weapon down the stretch and into October
    2. Javier: He doesn't need a 3rd pitch to be an effective starter. He has already proven that. Javier was worn down before the year started. He went from 50 innings in 2020 to 100 in 2021 to 150 in 2022, pitching into November then not having an offseason really as he ramped up for the WBC. People who discount the WBC on him because of so few innings pitched aren't considering the fact that between the World Series and then getting ready for the WBC, he had basically no offseason. Javier will never be a guy who is likely to give you 7+ innings on a given night, but he can, and likely will, be a guy who can regularly give you 5+ dominant innings, which in today's version of baseball is incredibly valuable

    What we really need is
    1. A utility bat who can play 3B/1B, if he can play more than that great, but ideally needs to be one that fits our platoon needs. Doesn't need to be a high dollar stud, needs to be a solid mlb type to keep us from having to play some of the really bad players we have had to throw out there
    2. Steady up the pen. Going and getting a guy who has proven he would be a great 7th inning guy isn't likely to happen, we won't spend the money for that (not trying to be anti-Crane, but he isn't likely to go into the tax as he has shown already, and he certainly won't do it for a 7th inning type) but Brown could go find a high upside arm that has struggled but one that our pitching coaches and analytics guys think has the potential to step up
    3. Backup catcher who won't rock the boat, will provide good defense and would be a good mentor for Diaz. As great as Mandonado was apparently viewed by the staff and Dusty, he wasn't likely a great mentor for Diaz as he was upset Diaz was there. You could tell when he was asked about Diaz he was not happy with the whole situation. We need a guy who wants to be a veteran mentor, defender and supporter of a potential super star

    I wish Crane was willing to go into the tax. I love the fact that we have built this team over from the ground up. We have developed these guys ourselves, not gone out and bought them. But I do wish he would be willing to spend on one more star level bat for LF. It's not gonna happen though. So let's get these few things done, come back wtih a great manager, and do WHATEVER is needed to make sure the rangers never, ever, win anyther title
     
  10. BlindHog

    BlindHog Member

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    2024 Space Cowboys will have the best rotation they have had since their inception..
    C Gordon*
    R Kouba
    S Arrighetti
    J Robaina*
    R Gusto

    There are unlikely to be any aces in there but I really do expect them all to contribute in some way at the ML level or as trade pieces.
     
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  11. IdStrosfan

    IdStrosfan Member

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    The Angels have a huge need to fill out their roster and completely depleted their farm system last year.

    Brandon Drury has to be available, doesn't he? He will be a free agent after this year and they have no hope of contending.

    I would expect a package of 3 MLB or MLB ready guys with 5-6 years of control would appeal to them.

    Grae Kessinger, Kenedy Corona, and Misael Tamarez?

    Drury is equally as good vs either LH or RH pitching, could play 1B, 2B, and 3B, a total of 3-4 games per week with the regulars getting days off/DH days and DH when Yordan is in LF or off. He would serve as insurance vs injury for all 4 of those positions and can fill in at LF occassionally.

    He would put the team over the CBT, though, unless they include guys like Dubon and/or Urquidy in the deal to reduce salary a little.
     
  12. The Beard

    The Beard Contributing Member

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    I like Drury on this team a lot

    I wouldn't want to move Dubon in the deal though. This team needs more quality versatility. I think a new analytical manager could get a lot out of Dubon. Maybe we get them to take Montero back in a deal by adding in another prospect, or a higher level guy than one you mentioned. I hate the idea of further depleting our farm, but I do like the Drury idea, and the Angels are pretty stupid when it comes to making these kind of deals
     
  13. Marshall Bryant

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    I loved having Luhnow as the GM. But he's moved on now to Soccer.

    The only thing I consider essential with pitching is to get JV to 140IP. The rest should resign themselves to a 6 pitcher rotation with excess SP getting long relief roles or in Brown's case, adapt to a high leverage role with his stuff playing well and not having to conserve energy so he can start out with max effort. The guys we are losing are high leverage BP guys. Javier is similar because he adapts well to both roles, but he needs to adapt to IP at a 6 rotation level.

    I truly don't know how pitchers coming off injuries will do. But expecting them to come back like JV did is just crazy. Some may need to change roles and some may never be what they were. I'm glad I'm NOT making those calls. But there are also questions with every player acquired by trade. Elite SPs getting high $ FA contracts haven't been doing too well.
     
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  14. Hemingway

    Hemingway Member

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    Dusty was a detriment in my opinion this past year. He was necessary from a PR perspective after the scandal, but never because of managerial skills. I don’t really know how pigment got into the conversation.
     
  15. Hemingway

    Hemingway Member

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    I don’t really agree on your priorities. As far as 1b and 3b utility player, I think that can be filled internally and there is no need to expend assets. Kessinger can play 3b and 1b and Diaz or even Dubon can fill in at 1b in a crunch. We have a number of minor leaguers as well that could get a shot.

    Replacing Neris and Maton is a priority (or re-signing them). I do think signing a starting pitcher and moving one of Javier or France to the pen could be an option. Javier might be able to be a decent MOR starter without a 3rd pitch, but if he developed one he could evolve to a TOR type.

    Backup catcher is no big deal to me. There are plenty of journeyman we can go after if a Salarzar or one of our other minor leaguers can’t step up for 1 out of every 5 games. If we do go sign a mentor, I hope we don’t give up much. We need to replenish our farm not diminish it further.

    Luhow’s model was to keep us relevant for decades and to never go into a a full scale re-build again. I hope Crane keeps that mentality. If we didn’t do anything but sign a significant rp or sp and continued to let our youngsters prepare for the future, we will still be a contender next year and maybe the favorite. People forget that most of our lineup issues were with the manager and with injuries not with the roster.
    Diaz and McCormick in the everyday lineup, Altuve, Garcia, and Alvarez being available more, having 2 really good utility men in Dubon that can play all over the infield and some outfield, and Myers as a fourth outfielder is probably still the best roster in MLB. 7 straight ALCS appearances and plenty of youth put us in a great position for many years. We shouldn’t blow it by going all in for another title, when we probably get one with the roster we have.
     
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  16. Marshall Bryant

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    I have been labeled racist by racists because I treated Dusty as a human being with faults and blind spots.
     
  17. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    First time for everything ... but I disagree with @IdStrosfan

    I would Hard Pass on a trade
    * that would cost 3 good not great prospects
    * that would be for essentially a super utility player, one year away from FA, that would take ABs from Bregman and Altuve
    * that would put the team over the CBT

    Kessinger could sub for the 1B, 2B, and 3B starters, but less often than Drury would require and with no CBT issues ... leaving us looking for WAR in other places.

    The more I think about it, the more I think that the Astros will be aggressive in trading the back end of their 26 man roster and prospects. Some one like Myers might have more value with another team than the Astros.

    Jake Marisnick got us Blake Taylor and Kenedy Corona.

    Myles Straw got us Phil Maton and Yainer Diaz.

    Jake Meyers for multi-year bullpen help plus a good prospect trade would obviously help the bullpen now and a lottery ticket for latter. Meyers's innings as a glove first CF could be filled by Pedro León. One could argue that now is the time to León his shot.
     
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  18. IdStrosfan

    IdStrosfan Member

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    Well thought out and reasonable. And thanks for the kind words.

    I still think that none of those 3 prospects are irreplaceable from current organization and Drury provides needed insurance from injury and deepens the lineup.

    There are plenty of PAs to go around.

    Abreu needs 400-450 PA not 594, Bregman may be better at 650 PA instead of 724. Diaz had 164 PA as 1B/DH that can be replaced with him catching. Singleton had 73 PA. Just that is over 450 PA without even looking at LF.

    And you would adding a guy who was equal to Bregman in OPS.
     
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  19. IdStrosfan

    IdStrosfan Member

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    If season started today, 26 man roster in 4 tiers.

    Tier 1: 100% will and should be on 26 man
    Tier 2: reasonable but could possibly be upgraded
    Tier 3: needs to be upgraded
    Tier 4: Not great could be upgraded but untradeable. So stuck.

    Tier 1: Diaz, Altuve, Bregman, Pena, Dubon (as utility), Alvarez, McCormick, Tucker, Verlander, Valdez. Javier, Pressly, B.Abreu.

    Tier 2: Meyers, Kessinger, France, Urquidy, Graveman, Sousa, Blanco, Mushinski

    Tier 3: Salazar or Knapp, Singleton, S.Martinez.

    Tier 4: J Abreu, Montero
     
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  20. Hemingway

    Hemingway Member

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    Ok. I get it just didn’t understand why it was brought up.
     
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