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2022 Midterms

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Xerobull, Jan 8, 2021.

  1. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Whatever. Reality is starting to dawn on Senator Murkowski. Better late than never. As long as she is defeated. Kelly Tshibaka will be a huge improvement.

    Murkowski says she may lose to ‘rubber-stamp Republican’

    Sen. Lisa Murkowski’s (R-Alaska) said in a new interview it is possible she loses her reelection bid to a “rubber-stamp Republican.”

    “I may be the last man standing. I may not be re-elected,” the senator told The New York Times. “It may be that Alaskans say, ‘Nope, we want to go with an absolute, down-the-line, always, always, 100-percent, never-question, rubber-stamp Republican.’

    “And if they say that that’s the way that Alaska has gone — kind of the same direction that so many other parts of the country have gone —I have to accept that,” she added. “But I’m going to give them the option.”

    Murkowski, who represents a historically independent state, has been known to split with Republicans on important votes, most recently including her vote to confirm Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson to the bench.

    She has relied on her bipartisanship and willingness to break from the Republican Party as an asset, the Times noted, however her vote to impeach former President Trump after the Jan. 6 Capitol riot sparked pushback from his supporters.

    In response, Trump has put his endorsement and support behind a challenger to Murkowski, former Alaska Commissioner of Administration Kelly Tshibaka.​
     
  2. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    You believe it is an "infantile world view" to think that different loans should be viewed differently... that helping young people get access to education that will not only help them get out of the economic challenges they may face otherwise but also make contributions to the betterment of society is a different possible outcome than someone purchasing a car or home (and where in what I wrote equated other people with other loans as "louses"??????).

    I know cars are important (my wife and I volunteer at Gods Garage, a charity that helps women get free cars that GG receives as donations and then repairs). I also know housing is an incredibly important topic that needs to be addressed (and again, I volunteer at Habitat for Humanity).

    And again, didn't Biden campaign on improving educational access and loan forgiveness?
     
  3. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Trust the process
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    CNN hitting the Dems harder than more conservative media sources

    Today is a disastrous day for Democrats' 2022 chances
    https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/28/politics/us-economy-shrank-democrats-2022-midterm/index.html

    excerpt:

    (CNN) The news that the US economy unexpectedly shrank over the first quarter of the year is an absolute body blow to Democrats already reeling amid growing economic concerns ahead of the 2022 midterm election.

    The country's gross domestic product fell at an annualized rate of 1.4% between January and March -- a stunning reversal from the 6.9% GDP growth that the US recorded in the final quarter of 2021. (The GDP is seen as a broad guide to the overall health of a nation's economy.)

    And in a decidedly ill omen, the GDP shrinkage was the worst performance of the measure since the economy went into recession amid the shutting down of the country in the spring of 2020.
    more at the link
     
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  4. dc rock

    dc rock Contributing Member

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    Q lit it up last night. A star is born.





     
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  5. HTM

    HTM Member

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    Compared to someone wanting to buy a nice car, buy a house, or run up credit card debt? What seems a better investment for America?

    This was how you phrased things before, but now, you're not speaking in those dismissive terms, interesting, lose your dismissive tone over night?

    People "buying nice cars" and "running up credit card debt" - How does one read this other then you accusing people of being profligate?

    Or people buying a "normal" cars to get to a normal job or using their credit when they need it under any number of sympathetic circumstances, not "running up credit card debt"

    Your harsh phrasing. Not mine.

    Biden has equivocated on the subject and what he campaigned on with regard to student loan forgiveness is not all together clear and does not necessarily jive with what will come down.

    I guess we shall see. I see the merit in some loan forgiveness for the most vulnerable but I am entirely against blanket or massive loan forgiveness many Democrats are championing.
     
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  6. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Even your failed efforts to re-spin my actual words. In no way to I call or even imply anyone was a "louse". So now you went from claiming I called people "louses" to using "harsh" phrasing? That I compared student loans to car loans and home loans... and with the reasons I provided preferred Biden offering student loan forgiveness?

    Seems an odd follow-up after first calling my position "infantile". But hey... if you can't discuss the actual points I made, I guess your approach is what you are left with.
     
  7. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Lack of legislative success?

    Talk about a narrative, people have forgotten all about build back better.

    Did you forget about everything else that he got done legislatively?

    I am actually glad BB was not passed because the Republicans would have used it to say that BBB is the reason for inflation and that would have gotten a lot of traction.
     
  8. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    https://www.google.com/search?q=Wha...&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&safe=active&ssui=on
     
  9. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    I think you mean I've forgotten about the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act. I haven't because it affects my work daily. That was great. But, it's insufficient forward momentum politically. Couldn't get BBB, couldn't get the voting rights law, couldn't get any other significant law passed.
     
  10. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    That's how you look at it, but the real issue is you saying Biden has not been able to get things passed which is just false.

    This is why we can't have nice things because you did not get what you want everything else does not matter and its extra frustrating when you say the things that have actually been passed affects your work daily.

    So because he could not get any other thing passed, you forget about the other major things he has done.

    Why is everything that has not been passed more important than the things that have?

    Why do you think his reelection hinges on these other things and not job growth and salary growth?
     
  11. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    Before he was elected I predicted he wouldn't particularly get a great deal done, because the atmosphere in Washington was too toxic. You can go back and find the posts if you doubt. I was hoping for at least a one-term cooldown period to calm the gaping wound that is our social discourse.

    Unfortunately, Pootie-Poot had other plans.
     
  12. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member
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    Well the decks were already stacked against him. It took hail mary run offs in a deep red state for Dems to win a Senate majority. Dems failed on a national level by not winning more seats in states Biden carried.

    I've been grousing about it since it happened to blunt the coming disaster, though Manchin and Sinema's rebellion is surprising. Also surprising is the turn coats from Republican moderates to pass the infra bill.

    Would one have existed without the other? Who knows?

    Anyways, I also think Putin is helping Biden since the president is doing poorly for polls in key domestic issues. Economy, inflation, immigration, even covid response/recovery. If it wasn't for Ukraine, his critics might even bring up Afghanistan...
     
  13. HTM

    HTM Member

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    You're not great at reading comphrension.

    I didn't say you "called people louses" - I said, this, "To act as if those who struggle with those types of debt are just louses is disgusting and incredibly ignorant." - To have to go back and correct your intentional misrepresentation is tiresome. Please do not misrepresent what I said again. You did "act as if people were louses" when you attributed car debt to "people buying nice cars" and credit card debt as "people running up credit card debt" - that is cynical and harsh and misrepresents reality, the reality where people need to finance cars, of all conditions, to function in society and where people need to rely on credit cards, at various times, for any number of exigencies.

    What actual points do you want to discuss? No OECD country would or does support or maintain a "free" educational system like the current U.S. system is structured. There's an incredible cost to bear and that is why their "free" college education is heavily rationed, in comparison to the United States were access is far greater.

    This notion "ItS JusT GoOd EvErYonE GeTs As MuCh EDuCAtiON aS ThEy WanT" is not a philosophy shared by other even more progressive countries such as France, Germany, Spain, Denmark etc etc.

    These countries have systems in place which actively prevent people from obtaining access to "free" college. They recognize it's not a good investment for society. Education and the resources used to provide it are limited resources.

    https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=71

    (statistics regarding postsecondary degree achievement)
     
  14. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Again, you attack me for my reading "comphrension"...

    You don't want to spend money to help people facing financial challenges of the high cost of education... fine. Just say that. Me... as someone that paid off my oldest kid's schooling and will now help my youngest as she graduate's in June. But we'll pay her loans just like we did (we meaning my wife and I and my daughter).

    That said... the cost of tuition and related costs here in the United States are higher than other countries. The amount students owe then are much higher. And a significant number of students default on their loans.

    I think that shows there needs to be a change. And I am happy to have tax dollars spent to help improve that system. You don't... fine.
     
  15. HTM

    HTM Member

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    Spelling mistakes happen. Intentional misrepresentations of what others said to try and steer an argument one way or the other is just deciding to do something wrong.

    I'm pragmatic and open minded to a small amounts of forgiveness. I think those who are the most sympathetic are those who should never have gone to college and took out fairly modest amount, quickly discovered they shouldn't be there or life forced them to enter the work force and now they may only owe 5, 10 or 15 thousand dollars but they cannot make much more then $15 an hour and they can never get out from under even a $10k debt at 5% interest (or whatever the interest is). Or its extremely burdensome for them.

    Most borrowers do not default. Most borrowers can pay their debt. They don't want to. It sucks. Paying debts sucks.

    I graduated not too long ago and spent my first couple of years in the work force making sacrifices and finding side hustles to pay back my $60,000.00 in loans in 2.5 years. Which was the right thing to do, I borrowed money, I paid it back. I'm painfully aware of what $60,000.00 invested in my 20's turns into by retirement.

    Widespread student loan forgiveness will create a generation of people, including me, who will be significantly worse off financially then those who graduated a few years later. Born in '91? Sorry, sucks for you, shouldn't have paid your loans. Born in '98? Congrats! you get the benefit of XXX of money. It's completely unfair to forgive current student loans and not refund those who also operated in the same system and paid their loans. Politicians don't even pay lip service to this inequity though. It's horrible.
     
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  16. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    You mean, like positioning an argument as calling people "louses" (and then later re-spinning that as "harsh" talk)? Gee, I agree that is wrong, wonder where that happened?

    You think fewer students should benefit from loan forgiveness? Then you and the politicians you support should have proposed such a bill. Unfortunately, no one did. And as a result no one was getting help.
     
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  17. HTM

    HTM Member

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    I never said you "called people louses." Which you claim I said. I said you were "acting" like people with auto/home/credit card debt were louses with the way you decided to describe their circumstances. "Buying nice cars" and "running up credit card debt." Your uncharitable description of their debt is on you.

    Your second point seems misworded. I'm not sure what you're trying to communicate there.
     
  18. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Now you have gone from "calling them louses" to "harsh" to "uncharitable."

    I am surprised you wish to continue to argue that by saying "I act like I am calling them louses" is any different than saying I am calling them louses.

    This is a pointless discussion. You simply want to attack my support of student loan relief by misrepresenting what I wrote.

    And you also ducked my question back to you... since you oppose Biden's plan (which as far as I know hasn't be released yet)... what would you propose instead?
     
  19. SamFisher

    SamFisher Virtuous

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    I wouldn't buy HisPillow, @Os Trigonum right?
     
  20. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Trust the process
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    another dumb tag
     

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