2 Franchise players and a partridge in a pear tree

If we got Brand for SF, I want us to go after Arroyo of the Jazz to be our PG. It seems Sloan likes Lopez more than him..

 

This question is based more on my ignorance about the guy more than anything else, so bear with me. What is the fascination with Okur that both Detroit and so many others (including posters to this forum) consistently show. His stats don't indicate much in the way of significant NBA accomplishments. Is the interest based on percieved potential (the dreaded "P word"), history in the European leagues, or what?

 

What's up with the facination of these tiny Utah guards? Just because they lit SF up everyone wants them here. I think we need somebody more on the lines of a Brent Barry because he can play both positions and his shooting/passing game probably can mix in well with Yao's.

 

Okur reminds me of Sabonis. Favorable comparison there. Of course I'm talking NBA Sabonis, not Euro Sabonis. And Okur's a little smaller too.

 

The best thing we can do is somehow get Nowitzki in a Rockets uniform and have the team centered around SF-Dirk-Yao......with that said this team would be really good, but also its pretty dern close to impossible if not impossible

 

Man, Rileydog, it's too bad that your thread title doesn't have the brilliant analysis of the more commonly-read threads around here like "TRADE STEVIE!!!!" or "FIRE VAN GUMBY!!!!"

It's too bad because your post is brilliant. The best post-mortem I've read yet on what the team should do. It should be required reading ...

After Stevie's performance in the playoffs, I agree that you absolutely must get fair market value for him if you trade him. That means nothing less than a franchise player. Stevie showed that he can be a franchise player for the right team, and CD should only entertain those kinds of deals.

Sending Stevie to some team for 3 or 4 good players (like Eric Snow and filler or Brent Barry and filler) would be a huge mistake. In the NBA, good players are a dime a dozen; great players win championships. We need a great player to go with Yao. Dealing Stevie for filler sets us back.

But what about Stevie/Yao's compatability? What about it. The way they played together in Game 3 of the series was perfect. These guys have been together for two years under two different coaches. I wouldn't ship them out just yet -- if it still doesn't work next year, maybe. But we're on a 3-5 year plan here, not a 2 year plan for championship contention. I think Stevie bought himself more time with his performance in the playoffs.

Of course, if a franchise player like Elton Brand were dangled, I'd have to think about it real hard.

JJ to the 2. Thank you. JJ was playing out of position as a starting small forward. We were basically running a 3 guard offense this year. Sure, JJ can get you 10 minutes a game at SF, but he shouldn't be playing 40 minutes a game at SF.

I love what Cat did this year, but he's expendable. He's the shiny object you dangle in front of other GMs to get their attention first -- not Stevie. Cat and filler can get you a decent power forward while keeping Stevie.

Of course this leaves a hole at the 3, but JJ isn't the long term answer there anyhow. Maybe Boki can step up, maybe not. But one thing at a time. The biggest need is at the 4. This is a long term project -- we can plug the hole at the 3 later.

 

if he doesn't i will make no excuses for him.

 

I've been asking the same thing about Brent Barry for about a year. He's a decent 2 guards, but he is not a point. Then of course the board's new fascination, Marquis Daniels.

 

I agree and will even dare to make the highly controversial statement.

We should keep both Yao and Francis.

Francis has the skills to breakdown defenders, penetrate and more importantly he has HEART AND DESIRE.

Yao is a rare talent with the size, soft hands, shooting touch and vision to be a phenomenal post player.

Their skills can and have complemented each other. What both lack is consistency. If they can play consistently the Rox will be a force to be reckoned with. We should give them the chance for at least one more season to see if they can get more consistent and comfortable with each other.

 

I agree that JJ is a two, but I don't know if he can guard 2's any better than he can guard 3's. He seems to lack the lateral quickness to do that. I cringed everytime I saw him try to guard Kobe in the playoffs. That being said, the Rockets need to seriously upgrade their frontcourt if they have any illusions of being a contender to come out of the west anytime soon. I'm warming to the idea of trading Cat rather than Steve. It's tough to keep saying to be patient year after year.

 

Look no futher than Drexler/Olajuwon.

 

Excellent point.

Having said that, if we get a real monster at the 4 slot, we'd have him (and Yao) waiting in the lane if the opposing 2 got by JJ.

In fact, that athletic shot blocking ability was exactly what Eddie was supposed to provide this year.

 

We cannot get Marquis Daniels.

We can only offer the MLE, which Dallas can offer as well.

The only thing we can offer that they can't is possibly a starting spot.


Still, I wouldn't want him. He's a poor shooter from 3-pt range, and we don't know if he'll work on that. We don't want to give someone who can shoot it a long contract while Yao is around.


With Francis and Daniels in the backcourt, defenses will suffocate Yao.


I say we focus our attention on signing both NVE and McDyess, they both love Houston and have homes there. Once we've done that, we can focus on re-shaping the roster with one big trade or a couple of small ones. After that, we'd need to

- Trade Mobley, MoT and the TE
- Get a PF and SF in return.

I'm thinking we trade Mobley, MoT and part of the TE for Croshere and Harrongton, giving us:

Yao/Cato
McDyess/Cato/Croshere
Harrington/JJ/Croshere
JJ/Francis/Pike
Francis/NVE

I don't know if there are enough shooters on that team though. We MAY want to turn around and trade Al Harrington and the rest of the TE for Rashard Lewis?

That would give us

Yao/Cato
McDyess/Cato/Croshere
Lewis/JJ/Croshere
JJ/Francis/Pike
Francis/NVE


Pretty damn good if you ask me. Hate to take on Croshere and Lewis' contracts, but Lewis is well worth it, while Croshere can stretch defenses better than MoT.

Thoughts?

 

LOL Marquis Daniels! Some of you people make me wonder if you even watch basketball. Don't you get it. Marquis Daniels only scores because hell everyone on the Mavericks does. I could score if I got PT on that team. They score 120 a night. They don't play whats called Defense and thats exactly why they are on the same golf course as the Rockets. One team can't defend the other, couldnt hold onto the ball 2 times in a row if their life depended on it. Marquis Daniels is not an answer for the Houston Rockets anymore than Mark Jackson was the answer at backup PG. Daniels is an average player at best. Give me a break. The Rockets need high quality moves, such as Ray Allen, TMAC, Elton Brand. They need to package Mobley and Francis up and get rid of them. They are high turnover, low shooting percentage players, who won't help you win a championship.

 

This post makes me wonder if you do.

Daniels is a rookie, and he runs the Mav's as well as or better than an all-star, Steve Nash.

He also plays under control and with maturity.

 

You want to retract that statement, give me a break.

 

I think the term "franchise caliber player" is too vague. I prefer thinking in terms of "lead star on a championship caliber team" or LSCT.

Lead stars on championship teams in the last 20 plus years: Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Moses Malone, Isiah Thomas, Michael Jordan, Hakeem Olajuwon, Tim Duncan, Shaquille O'Neal. If you count teams that made it to the Finals but didn't win: Clyde Drexler, Charles Barkley, Patrick Ewing, Gary Payton, Karl Malone, Reggie Miller, Allen Iverson, Jason Kidd.

The point is, if we our goal is to be a champioinship caliber team, we need a lead star that is of that magnitude. Right now, Francis (not Yao) is our lead star, and we are not championship caliber team. Is Francis good enough to be a LSCT? Can we trade him and get one? Who among current players can be considered a LSCT?

IMO, of all current players not yet listed above, only a handful have the talent to be a LSCT. Sure bet: Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady. Maybe: Dirk Nowitzki, Peja Stojakovic, Chris Webber, Vince Carter. Potential: Yao Ming, LeBron James, Melo Anthony.

Players like Francis, Brand, Wallace, Allen etc. are not LSCT. They are either the lead star of a non-championship team or the second star of a championship team. That's why I have said in another thread that if Yao doesn't become a LSCT, then we won't be a championship team, unless we can land one of the younger LSCTs listed above.

 

Are you comparing Francis to Drexler or Yao to Olajuwon, or both?