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157 tons of anthrax and VX found in Iraq

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by treeman, Mar 3, 2003.

  1. treeman

    treeman Member

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    157 tonnes of anthrax, VX nerve gas found: Iraq

    Baghdad destroys six more al-Samoud missiles

    BAGHDAD: Ongoing excavations have led to the discovery of important quantities of anthrax and VX nerve agent, Iraqi presidential adviser Amer al-Saadi said on Sunday.

    UN inspectors have been seeking clarification for years of the whereabouts of such deadly agents. Amer said excavations at the al-Aziziya air base, 104 kilometres south-west of Baghdad, had uncovered nearly all bomb fragments filled with tonnes of toxic agents which Iraq insists it destroyed unilaterally in 1991.

    "So far we have reached a figure not quite 157 (tonnes of anthrax), but we are nearing it, there is work in progress," he told a news conference. "So far, more than eight (bombs) have been found which were intact, not perforated, which could be tested for the material inside," he said.

    Amer also said there was "another question with the anthrax, which is the bulk material that was left over, that was unfilled and that was unilaterally destroyed also."

    The material "is in a site called al-Hakam, and this is what the meeting this evening is all about" between newly arrived UN biological experts and Iraqi authorities. "The destruction site is known and it is still undisturbed and we could look for DNA signatures of those materials and perhaps we could quantify this material, not just qualitative tests, but quantitative tests to estimate how much was destroyed there," he said.

    "That, in addition to the 157 tonnes in al-Aziziya, will make the total," he said. Amer added the 1.5 tonnes of VX still to be accounted for "was unilaterally destroyed in a dumping


    site near al-Muthanna State Establishment, and we have made analyses which strongly indicate that the total material was destroyed there."

    Also on Sunday, Iraq destroyed six more al-Samoud 2 missiles with UN weapons inspectors looking on, but warned it might suspend the destruction programme if the US indicated it would go to war anyway.

    In two days, Iraq has destroyed 10 of the banned weapons, about a tenth of its stock. It has also destroyed two casting chambers used to make engines for the al-Fatah missile. Iraq destroyed those chambers in the 1990s, only to rebuild them. "As you can see, there is pro-active cooperation from the Iraqi side," Amer said. "Practically all the areas of concern to UNMOVIC (the UN inspection team) and the subjects of remaining disarmament questions have been addressed," he said. "We hope that it will be to the satisfaction of UNMOVIC."

    But he cautioned that if the US indicated it would go to war anyway, Iraq might stop destroying the missiles, which fly farther than the 150 kilometres allowed by the United Nations. "If it turns out at an early stage during this month that America is not going to a legal way, then why should we continue?" Amer asked.

    The US, which is leading the push for war against Iraq, derided the beginning of the destruction on Saturday. A White House spokeswoman called Iraq's move "part of its game of deception".

    US Senator Joseph Biden, the top Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said on 'Fox News Sunday' that "destroying all of the missiles is not enough for me". He said Iraq also needed to account for "all of the other weapons of mass destruction that we know have not been accounted for".

    Iraq has agreed to destroy all unassembled pieces, software, launchers, fuel and equipment used to make the al-Samoud 2 in "a few days or a very short few weeks", according to Demetrius Perricos, the deputy of chief weapons inspector Hans Blix.

    Iraq said its cooperation is an attempt to avert an US-led war against it. "War is the worst thing, and we are trying to do whatever we can to avoid war so we are doing our utmost to cooperate," Iraq's UN ambassador, Mohammed al-Douri, said in New York.

    Amer al-Saadi indicated it is not easy for Iraq to do that. He said Iraq wouldn't let anyone see photographs or video images of the missile destruction - despite the potential impact on world opinion - because it would be too bitter for the Iraqi people to watch. "It is too harsh. It is unacceptable," he said sombrely. "That's why we have released no pictures."

    Inspectors returned on Sunday to al-Aziziya where Iraq says it destroyed R-400 bombs filled with biological weapons in 1991.

    Amer said 157 of the R-400 bombs contained anthrax, aflotoxin and botulin toxin. He said Iraq has been excavating them and so far has uncovered eight bombs intact. He argued for continued inspections. He said US claims that Iraq isn't disarming are lies - and said the only way to find out is with an independent arbiter.

    However, the Pentagon was contemplating "Plan B" for its anticipated war after Turkey refused to allow US combat troops to launch invasion from its territory. A Defence Department official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said that no "other decision" had been made regarding war plans in light of the Turkish vote, but US media has reported details of an alternative.


    http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/index.html

    (the Daily Jang is Pakistan's largest english newspaper; they often catch stories in that part of the world before our media get ahold of them)

    Curious: The Iraqis have been telling us this whole time that they destroyed all of their anthrax and VX voluntarily in 1991, yet now they are able to unearth 157 tons of the crap, much inside intact bombs, just out of the blue?

    Who here still doubts that Iraq has kept its WMD stocks over the years?
     
  2. HOOP-T

    HOOP-T Member

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    What a shocker.
     
  3. DCkid

    DCkid Member

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    I'm sorry, but how can you have 157 tons of Anthrax? I guess I didn't realize it was that easy to get your hands on.
     
  4. Pole

    Pole Houston Rockets--Tilman Fertitta's latest mess.

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    I'd be more worried about one and a half tons of VX.
     
  5. Sonny

    Sonny Member

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    157 tons, that's 314,000lbs :eek:

    Isn't this stuff lethal in teaspoon size amounts or smaller?

    I wonder what else is buried in the desert?
     
  6. Sonny

    Sonny Member

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    I think that they have labs to make it. Also they have mobile labs that are very hard to track which produce this crap.
     
  7. Cohen

    Cohen Member

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    Originally posted by Sonny
    I think that they have labs to make it.

    According to reports, they did have labs making anthrax years ago.


    Also they have mobile labs that are very hard to track which produce this crap.

    That's the US's claim. I don't think it has been 'proven'.
     
  8. treeman

    treeman Member

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    Cohen (and anyone else interested in learning about Iraq's
    WMD programs):

    Check this site out:

    http://www.iraqwatch.org

    Tracking this issue is their bread and butter.
     
  9. treeman

    treeman Member

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    Oh, and go to their "Suppliers" section, and type in 'Germany' as the search term. You will be pleasantly surprised. Or shocked.
     
  10. ArtV

    ArtV Member

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    Sad thing is we told them how to make it and even gave them some samples back in the 80s to offset Iran.
     
  11. treeman

    treeman Member

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    More accurately, they learned how to make it just like every microbiologist learns how to culture bacterium - in school. (It really isn't that difficult, you just need the right equipment, environment, and materials). They sent many of their best and brightest to American universities, just like everyone else. And we didn't give them anthrax - at least not as in a state-to-state transfer. They bought it legally from a company that specializes in selling biosamples to academic and research organizations. Back then anyone with university letterhead could buy it. It was not some sinister exchange that the conspiracy theorists love to bandy about; that is one of the more colorful myths surrounding the US-Iraqi relationship during the 1980s.
     
  12. ArtV

    ArtV Member

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    On the History or Discovery channel, they interviewed the person heading the US biological R&D during the 80s. His story is - against his desire - he was forced by the US govt to turn over the formula and a sample - to counter Iran.
     
  13. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    Try typing in "United States" as a search term. You will be shocked...and not pleasantly.
     
  14. sosorox

    sosorox Member

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    Why isn't this on BBC.com? It should be, if it is true. The last article I have found on the BBC is about an aggressive change in policy of the US and UK, and a bombing raid where 18 or so Iraqi citizens died.
     
  15. ROCKSS

    ROCKSS Member
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    ..

    are you saying that you believe they stopped making anthrax years ago ??
     
  16. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    We didn't supply them with Anthrax....we supplied them with the ingredients, along with lots of other WMDs...

    http://www.thememoryhole.org/corp/iraq-suppliers.htm
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2002-09-30-iraq-ushelp_x.htm

    Myth, my a$$. The only myth is denying the truth, and the truth is that 200,000 American troops are deployed in the Middle East so they can clean up one of Ronald Reagan's biggest foreign policy blunders...giving Saddam weapons of mass destruction.
     
  17. Uprising

    Uprising Member

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  18. treeman

    treeman Member

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    Tex:

    It is well established fact that Iraq ordered the Ames strain of anthrax from an American company, and that this strain was used as a centerpiece in their BW program.

    The myth is that we actually gave Saddam biological weapons which he in turn used against Iran. There are three problems with this idea: 1) Saddam obtained the samples legally from a commercial BR company, 2) we only gave him samples, not actual weapons (he weaponized it himself), and 3) Iraq never used anthrax against the Iranians. Why not?

    And BTW, exactly what other WMDs did we supply them with? Anthrax is the *only* questionable item they ever obtained from us. In fact, we didn't actually give them hardly any weapons during their war with Iran; we gave them money and intelligence. They got their weapons from France, Russia, and China. Their WMDs, too.
     
  19. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    All the greedy idiot powers are culpable. In this case, we're no better than the French and Germans...

    The question I'm wondering is: why didn't the UN Inspectors find them 6 years ago, and how did they suddenly find them now?
     
  20. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    we might be a little bit better...i mean, at least we weren't selling him WMD while or after he was using them on his own people...while or after he invaded kuwait.
     

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