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15-card stud

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Will, Aug 7, 2001.

  1. Will

    Will Clutch Crew
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    Mo Taylor
    Eddie Griffin
    Shandon Anderson
    Dan Langhi

    What do they have in common? They can play more than one "position," at least at one end of the floor. Throw in the fact that we've got a trio of big/tall guys who can shoot from long range (Taylor, Collier, Bullard), and you have what Rudy T craves most: the ability to inflict matchup problems on the opposing team at almost any position. You also have the ability to adjust. Need to disrupt an opposing big man's scoring? Send in Griffin. Need to pull that big man out of the paint to clear space for your offense? Send in Taylor. Need to shut down the opposing SG? Send in Shandon. Need to shoot over him? Send in Langhi. And don't forget that Mobley can play some PG if we need him to. With four guys who can slide up or down the chart between positions 2, 3, and 4, we can instantly go big or small with just a single substitution.

    The point is, when you think about Griffin or Taylor or Anderson, don't think just about filling a position. A roster is like a hand of cards. You can put the cards together in various ways. Imagine that you've been dealt a hand of stud poker. Don't just look for aces, kings, or queens. Look at each card's suit and its numeral proximity to other cards. Look for options to put together a straight, a flush, or a full house. You want cards that give you multiple options.

    I think Mo and Shandon give us those options. That's worth paying for. Let's keep those cards, and see if we can draw a big man to round out our hand.
     
  2. Tmo

    Tmo Member

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    Don't forget tmo can play up to 3 positions, too.
     
  3. Will

    Will Clutch Crew
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    Of course. Can't believe I forgot to include him. That's five guys who can slide up or down the chart.
     
  4. buffalospeedway

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    nice analogy!

    ...and let's not fail to mention steve, who can play some shooting guard and led the team most of the year in just about every category.

    he's our ace of spades. ;)
     
  5. barbourdg

    barbourdg Member

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    The only sad thing, none of those guys can play the 5 effectively. Unless we move a player (or two) T. Moris will never get enough minutes to develop this year (if Langhi does crack the rotation).

    The sad thing for the Rockets, this was probably the best year to get a servicable center - low in the draft. I wonder with Hakeem departure, if they wished they would of picked up Loreen Woods, over T. Morris, in the 2nd round (or would of made a 2nd trade for a 2nd rounder). With his strong play in the summer league, Woods has already been named starting center for the Timberwolves.
     
  6. TheFreak

    TheFreak Member

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    Great post.

    Is Cato the Joker?
     
  7. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    I agree....and you aren't even talking about how we play small.

    Francis plays the 1 and 2 all the time.
    Mobley plays the 2 and 3 all the time.

    Cuttino certainly covers the 3 spot as much as Shandon, especially in the crucial 4th quarter. Remember, the 3 guard line-up (the small line-up) is as much Moochie, Francis, Mobley as it is Francis, Mobley, Anderson.
     
  8. Will

    Will Clutch Crew
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    barbourdg -- The Rockets have no one to blame but themselves. Everything we've seen this offseason -- the strictly limited offers to Hakeem and the rapid agreements with Mo and Shandon -- suggests that the Rockets were never serious about doing whatever it took to keep Hakeem (as opposed to offering him what was left of their cap and hoping he'd settle for it out of loyalty). They should have resolved his situation before the draft so they could have grabbed Woods or another center. I think they were gambling that Hakeem wouldn't get a better offer, so they didn't take out insurance. Tough luck.

    Freak -- I wouldn't even have guaranteed Hakeem $10M. But I also wouldn't have played this silly PR game of telling the media how hard we're working to keep him when in fact we think his career is done and we're playing the kind of hardball that says we're willing to lose him. That sentimental dance cost us precious time in making offseason moves.

    I really do hope he goes to the finals with Toronto. But I'm not sorry we dumped that card.
     
  9. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    I think you hit this one on the head, Will. I also believe the Rox got caught overplaying their hand with Hakeem, but I think this turned out about as well as possible. Hakeem is not mad at the Rox and they've parted amicably, we got draft picks for a player the organization didn't want, and Hakeem got to go to a team where he is wanted and fits in. It might have been better if the Rockets had saved their disingenuous offers, but you can understand them wanting to avoid the "they ran Hakeem out of town" PR disaster.
     
  10. TraJ

    TraJ Member

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    The versatility of this team is astounding. We've got a pretty good hand right now, but adding the right big man will make it virtually unbeatable in years to come. Actually, if the Rockets could get Cato to play hard for however many minutes he's in a game (defense, rebounding, put backs), I think he would be a servicable big man. That's what bugs me to no end about him. He has what we need, but he seemingly refuses to use it.
     
  11. Tmo

    Tmo Member

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    I wouldn't mope about not getting Woods. He's simply too uncoordinated for a C who has to play the finesse game. IMHO, other than Curry and Diop and (maybe but not really) Hunter, I don't think there were any centers worth getting in this year's draft.
     
  12. RunninRaven

    RunninRaven Member
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    I like your analogy, Will. The only problem I see with the matchup creation is that Rudy, at times, seems very hesitant to make quick substitutions to create the matchups. Very rarely will you see him make the "defensive" substitution at the end of a quarter or half on the last play. He tends to keep the guys on the floor until they do something really stupid that warrants taking them out. At times, this is great, it means he rides out every hot hand that is given to him, but at times it seems like a poor stategy. But I do like all the options he is presented with this season.
     
  13. Desert Scar

    Desert Scar Member

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    Will, I do not think we lost anything substantial towards getting a center over the past month's Hakeem negotiations. In that period only two centers were signed; MacCoullach who no way we would have matched his salary with NJ, and Muhammed, who would have been a better option but is undersized for battling WC centers. The only potential high impact move was Webber (more of a "4" though), and we were inhibited from offering him the true max contract via FA, thus he never was a realistic option.

    So in my mind we are in pretty much the same shape as we were after draft day. We could have picked up the 4th best center prospect just the other day at a relatively cheap price if we thought he would fit our bill (Heywood). We can still go after Marc Jackson or McCoy via FA, or my personal favorite, trying to get White off the now PF/C loaded Wizards. These guys all pack muscle that will be handy in the West. We can also scan internationally or the CBA for a cheap foul guy to help get us through this year and address it next year, or potentially help us more long term (the next Amechi, Dean Garret, Marc Jackson).
     
  14. haven

    haven Member

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    I agree on the strict issue of versatility.

    And I also think that the Rockets lack of a true C should be taken advantage of .

    I wish we had a center. Nothing would make me happier than to see Hakeem Olajuwon, Raef Lafrentz, or even Jahadi White patrolling the lanes next season. But I don't think it's going to happen.

    Instead of putting some stiff that gets 5 points and 6 boards every game, why not just try to run around the competition... literally. Screw the center position.

    Put Griffin or Mo Taylor there for extended minutes, which Rudy did a bit of last year. Mo can't guard centers well... but most centers these days don't need much guarding. And I guarantee you that most centers aren't fast enough to guard Mo. And Mo does require guarding.

    Go with what you're best at. In the Rockets case, it's speed and versatility. Let's make the other guys play our game. Sure, the 7' stiff might be better against Shaq and Mourning... but when we're not playing them, let's shoot the lights out and bench Cato and co.
     
  15. RichRocket

    RichRocket Member

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    How about Alvin Jones from Georgia Tech? I doubt Phllly will be able to keep both him and Dalambert (or will they?).

    Plus, he was Jason Colliers' teammate. Kind of like the Franchise-TMo connection maybe.

    I know he's only a rookie, but I think we can expect him to contribute as much as Collier and Cato anyway.

    He's a shotblocker with a decent O game -- compared to out Cs (Cato and Collier).

    I think he's a good fallback option anyway.
     
  16. Tmo

    Tmo Member

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    When Jones was on, he was a BEAST in college and could be a steal. He used to throw Haywood around like a rag doll. He was off too much, though, and didn't have enough pivot moves.
     
  17. leebigez

    leebigez Member

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    Versitile linup hum... How many different linups did rudy play during the championship years? Versitility sometimes means you don't have the right personnell, so now you try these crazy linup's. Did anyone see what happened to Philly when they had all those guards out there? Those gimmick linups may work in a short series or the regular season like those Don Nelson lineups, but when you play a quality western conference team, they won't work.

    Its true its about matchups, but you must have a regular end of game team that can win games. Having norris, francis, mobley, taylor and thomas or bullard on the floor at the same time will not win you anything. Check and see when was the last time Don Nelson has made it past the second round. Smoke and mirrors only goes so far.
     
  18. Doctor Robert

    Doctor Robert Member

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    Very good point Will, I have been thinking about Woods lately and how much better off we might be right now if we traded to pick him instead of Morris. Even if Morris was more of a sure thing I think we could have benefitted more by taking a risk with Woods.

    To be completely honest, I never thought there was ANY chance that Woods would have dropped so far. Despite the criticism he has recieved I think he is a better center than Mihm, who was the first C taken last year.

    I don't think there is any chance it could happen, but I would hope the Rockets would try and trade for him now anyway.
     
  19. DrNuegebauer

    DrNuegebauer Member

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    :)

    I like the thinking!
    And I think that between Cato and Collier we have no need of wasting a roster spot on another player - they can both lean on players for a bit.
    As far as Mo playing C, he bodies up pretty well (just because he doesn't rebound doesn't make him soft) and the only teams I can see where he would struggle at center against would have to be LA (obviously!), and San Antonio (there are 2 centers to match up against there....) - who knows how aggressive Zo will be on returning from his ailment?

    Don't the new rules provide the option for us to be able to double those guys before they even get the ball anyway?

    Go the long-armed forward power!
     
  20. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    leebigez,

    <ul>
    <li>Dallas ran 3 off against Utah, didn't they
    <li>Seattle constantly beat us with Perkins mismatching Hakeem and Detlef giving us fits
    <li>The Rockets won a championship with no PF
    <li>I remember Utah getting far with Antoine Carr at center in the 4th Q
    <li>The Knicks almost won a championship by going big
    </ul>

    I don't think anyone argues that we can't when big playoff games with the line-up you suggested. But I also don't think anyone denies that success in the NBA often hinges on exploiting mismatches. You are trying to make a big point that you don't like gimmick offenses, but exploiting mismatches does not mean you have a gimmick offense.

    I do not think we could win by trying to field two mismatches at the same time (Mobley at the 3 and Taylor at the 5), but Moochie, Francis and Mobley with Mo' and Cato (allow this for argument's sake) is not a stretch. The counter argument to yours is to try to name teams that have fielded 5 prototype players in the 4th Q of crucial playoff games on a consistent basis.

    <b>Rudy got the most out of that team</b>

    Rudy doesn't want to play no center. The line-up you suggest was forced upon him by having <b>3 centers injured</b> for most all of January, and 2 injured for most of the season. Same with most of the year before that!!! I don't think Rudy wanted those lineups.
     

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