Israeli Minister Won't Destroy Outposts By JOSEF FEDERMAN, Associated Press Writer JERUSALEM - Israel's defense minister said Tuesday he has no immediate plans to dismantle Jewish settlement outposts and he defended the proposed route of a security barrier that cuts deep into the West Bank. In a report released Tuesday, the United Nations (news - web sites) said only 11 percent of the planned 430-mile chain of walls, razor wire and ditches will actually follow the "Green Line," the invisible frontier between Israel and the West Bank. The barrier will ultimately disrupt the lives of 680,000 Palestinians and carve off 14.5 percent of the West Bank, the report said. Israel says it is building the barrier to keep out suicide bombers. Palestinians say they fear Israel is grabbing land. Also Tuesday, a 14-year-old Palestinian boy wounded by army fire a day earlier died of his wounds, hospital officials said. Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia, meanwhile, said he is in touch with militant groups about halting attacks on Israeli civilians. Qureia, who is to begin a new term Wednesday, hopes to reach a cease-fire with Israel before resuming talks about implementing the U.S.-backed "road map" peace plan. Qureia made it clear that he expects Israel to respond favorably to his efforts. Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (news - web sites) has said he is ready to meet with Qureia. "We are not against meetings with Sharon or any other Israeli official, but ... we want meetings that will end with positive and tangible results for the benefit of the peoples," Qureia said late Monday. Israeli settlement outposts in the West Bank and the barrier are high on the list of Palestinian concerns. Palestinians say the outposts and barrier threaten their goal of establishing an independent state in the West Bank and Gaza. Israeli Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz, speaking to Israeli Army Radio on Tuesday after a meeting a day earlier with Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in Washington, showed no signs of yielding on either issue. Last week, the Defense Ministry said it would review the outposts, leading to speculation that some would be dismantled to ease American concerns during Mofaz's Washington trip. Under the road map, Israel must remove dozens of outposts set up since March 2001. "The discussion in my office regarding the unauthorized outposts ... was determined ahead of time, not linked to my trip, and no decision was made about any upcoming evacuations," Mofaz told the radio. He said defense officials would continue to evaluate the outposts along with Israel's security needs. "I have to say that in the past year, a number of outposts were dismantled," most of them in agreement with settlers, he said. Peace Now, an Israeli monitoring group, said the number of outposts has dropped slightly since the road map was unveiled in June, to 101 or 102. But Peace Now spokesman Dror Etkes said the population and infrastructure have grown. Mofaz said the security barrier did not come up in his talks with Rumsfeld, although other officials may raise the issue. Asked about concerns that the United States may withhold aid to Israel because of the fence, Mofaz held firm. "I don't know yet if there will be a price as far as U.S. aid is concerned. It will certainly be discussed in the future," he said. "But to the question of need, I have no doubt that this is necessary, and I can explain this to the Americans." Israel says it is building the barrier through the West Bank and around Jerusalem to keep out Palestinian militants. The barrier has emerged as a major point of contention between the United States and Israel, with U.S. officials demanding it not cut into the West Bank. Mofaz's comments threatened to weaken Qureia as he prepared to present his new Cabinet for parliamentary approval on Wednesday. Approval was likely, despite dissatisfaction over its composition, both at home and internationally. Israel and the United States are unhappy with Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat (news - web sites)'s continued control over security forces. They want eight security forces to be united under an empowered interior minister answering to Qureia, to enable a crackdown on violent groups. The militants are responsible for hundreds of attacks against Israelis in three years of conflict. The road map calls for dismantling such groups. The 14-year-old Palestinian who died of his injuries was wounded Monday after youths threw rocks at Israeli troops in Rafah, near the Egyptian border, witnesses said. Military bulldozers, accompanied by three army vehicles, had moved into the area to demolish Palestinian houses, the witnesses said. The army said it had sent troops into the area to clear out tunnels that have been used by Palestinian weapons smugglers. A spokesman said the troops were operating in a closed military zone along the border and were not demolishing homes. The army said it was unaware of the boy being shot. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...p/20031111/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians I am bewildered. Maybe someone here can explain the rationale behind putting the fence so that it absorbs one-seventh of the West Bank. Who in Israel thinks this is equitable, or good PR, or that this could lead to peace...ever? The Israelis need a new government ASAP, because this one is leading them down the road to ruin.
I am bewildered. Maybe someone here can explain the rationale behind putting the fence so that it absorbs one-seventh of the West Bank. Why be bewildered? It is pretty obvious. Sharon and the group in power in Israel, hope to seize this land and hope to make it a permanent part of Israel. Here's an article on the wall. ********* Silence in the Face of Israeli Apartheid 11.7.2003 by Neve GORDON As the government of the Jewish state forces the Palestinians in ghettos, history must be turning in its grave. Qalqiliya, a city of 45,000, has been surrounded by a concrete wall and only those who are granted permits by the Civil Administration can enter and exit the city's single gate. Along the West Bank's north western border, an additional 12,000 people are now living in enclaves between the wall and the pre-1967 border. They too have become captives ; yet the so-called security wall does not separate these Palestinian residents from Jewish Israelis, but rather from their brethren in the West Bank. After placing them on small "islands," Israel is now "encouraging" them to leave their ancestral homes by undermining their infrastructure of existence. The goal, so it seems, is to annex the land uninhabited. More recently, another 15-km of the wall were approved to be built in the midst of East Jerusalem. Ten minutes drive from my Jerusalem apartment, parts of this concrete wall wind between houses in the Abu Dis neighborhood. A new Berlin wall in the making, only this time in the holy city. This wall will ultimately place approximately 35,000 Palestinians in a ghetto. Not only will they be isolated from their source of livelihood, but the sick will not be able to reach hospitals and the children will not be able to reach schools. Even the cemeteries will be out of bounds. Think about it, once this Apartheid wall is completed, many Palestinian parents will be living on one side while their adult children will be living on the other. Families will be torn apart. The wall dividing East Jerusalem clearly exposes Israel's lie, revealing that security is not the government's real objective. To put it simply, how will a wall that separates between Palestinian communities ensure the security of Jewish Israelis ? The facts on the ground lay bare that the Apartheid wall, which was ostensibly built to satisfy security needs, is in fact being used as an extremely efficient weapon of dispossession and abuse. Rhetoric aside, the Palestinians' land is being stolen, basic rights to freedom of movement and livelihood are systematically violated, and the rights to education, health and even burial are contravened. The instruments of violation are not only guns, tanks and airplanes, but Caterpillar bulldozers and Fiat tractors. If the wall is completed, then 50 percent of the West Bank will be annexed to Israel, and there will be no possibility of creating a viable Palestinian state. Moreover, it will not solve Israel's security problems, but rather exacerbate them. By engendering extreme pressure on the Palestinian people, who are already living under dire circumstances, it fosters their sense that there are no prospects for the future, thus motivating people to join extremist groups like the Hamas and Islamic Jihad ; indeed, the wall only increases the hatred towards the occupiers and promotes bloody attacks. What baffles the Israeli peace camp is the international silence. A state among nations is placing thousands of people in ghettoes, forcing them to live in subhuman conditions, and not even a murmur of protest can be heard from the world leaders. On November 9th, these international leaders have a unique opportunity to raise their voice against the Apartheid wall and 36 years of Israeli occupation. On this day, the world will be commemorating the 14th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin wall and the 65th anniversary of "Kristallnacht," the state orchestrated pogrom against Jews in Nazi Germany. The international leaders should tell Prime Minister Sharon that at this historical moment he has an option between walls and ethnic cleansing, on the one hand, and open borders and freedom, on the other. They should also let him know, in unequivocal terms, that they will use all necessary means to ensure that Israel will choose the latter. Neve Gordon teaches politics and human rights at Ben-Gurion University and can be reached at ngordon@bgumail.bgu.ac.il link
It seems like he's doing it because the believes he can get away with it. I think he's willing to gamble the PR hit for a while as long in an effort to grab more land. If only 60% of those 680,000 Palestinians that have their lives disrupted by the fence supported terrorist actions before this, that number might well increase now. Peace takes another hit. This is all very depressing, and I wish somebody in our govt. would stand start putting some real pressure on Israel to stop.
Why does Isreal insist on pouring salt in the Arab's wounds? Build the wall, on the Green Line, move the settlers back behind it, demilitarize Jeruselem and make an autonomous district ruled by a council of religeous leaders (personally I'd turn it over to Disney). That is the only possible end to this insanity. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!
I know, but there was talk of pressure from the state department earlier when Israel didn't dismantle the settlements and nothing significant came of it. The U.S. can't be an honest broker for peace if it only pressures one side. I think both sides need pressure to stop the behavior that hurts the process and aid to both sides for taking positive steps towards it.
Yes, that's the one, and the fact that it's taking additional land and disrupting 680,000 lives is the reason people are so up in arms about it.
I guess Israel is choosing security over another attempt at peace with the Palestinians (at least in the short term). Does anyone know if the Israeli people support this? Are there any polls?
The Israeli point of view: "If any other country lived in our reality, if its international airport was in the range of anti-aircraft missiles, and if a strategic national asset like the international airport was threatened, they would take at least this step," he told Israel Army Radio. "We are doing this because of our deep commitment to the security of Israeli citizens." Deputy Defense Minister Zeev Boim said the fortifications were proving effective. Along the 150 kilometers (90 miles) completed so far around the northern West Bank, the number of infiltrations into Israel had fallen drastically, he said.
Again: anything those with the power do to those without is ok so long as those with think they have a reason. Mr. C, aren't you getting a bit tired of that refrain?
Likewise things should not necessarily be condemned simply because they favor the group with power. Israel is beset by suicide bombers. They build a big wall and the bombings decrease. That seems like a reasonable solution. If the "Palestinians" don't want a big wall there, a simple solution on their side would be to stop sending suicide bombers after Israelis.
If Israel doesn't want suicide bombings they can get the hell off land that isn't theirs and then build a wall to the moon if they want. If anything has proven accurate is that there is far from a simple solution.
I am bewildered. Maybe someone here can explain the rationale behind putting the fence so that it absorbs one-seventh of the West Bank. Who in Israel thinks this is equitable, or good PR, or that this could lead to peace...ever? The Israelis need a new government ASAP, because this one is leading them down the road to ruin. Cohen, I am bewildered as well. And I couldn't agree with you more. This is an Israeli government out of control. I wish we would see a strong response from the American government to this madness, but I don't expect more than the empty words followed by Israel doing what it wants... knowing that the Bush Administration will do nothing of substance to prevent what they are doing and will veto any UN resolution that condemns Israeli actions. Can anyone justify any US veto in the UN pertaining to this when Israel is thumbing it's nose at the US, taking our money, and doing what it damn well pleases? I speak of the current Israeli government, of course.
They are just pushing it. It will get to the point that it will tick off more people and many more will retaliate for the newly aquired land. And we will keep going on with the bombings/suicides/tanks.... Its a real sad state that the holy land of Jerusalem is in. If only America layed the smackdown on the people over ther and actually became the "police force" and monitered how things would go on...
We need Ronald Reagan back in office... Excerpts from Reagan's legendary "Tear down this wall" Speech "Behind me stands a wall that encircles the free sectors of this city, part of a vast system of barriers that divides the entire continent of Europe. From the Baltic, south, those barriers cut across Germany in a gash of barbed wire, concrete, dog runs, and guardtowers. Farther south, there may be no visible, no obvious wall. But there remain armed guards and checkpoints all the same -- still a restriction on the right to travel, still an instrument to impose upon ordinary men and women the will of a totalitarian state. Yet it is here in Berlin where the wall emerges most clearly; here, cutting across your city, where the news photo and the television screen have imprinted this brutal division of a continent upon the mind of the world. Standing before the Brandenburg Gate, every man is a German, separated from his fellow men. Every man is a Berliner, forced to look upon a scar. President von Weizsacker has said: "The German question is open as long as the Brandenburg Gate is closed." Today I say: As long as this gate is-closed, as long as this scar of a wall is permitted to stand, it is not the German question alone that remains open, but the question of freedom for all mankind. Yet I do not come here to lament. For I find in Berlin a message of hope, even in the shadow of this wall, a message of triumph. ... And now the Soviets themselves may, in a limited way, be coming to understand the importance of freedom. We hear much from Moscow about a new policy of reform and openness. Some political prisoners have been released. Certain foreign news broadcasts are no longer being jammed. Some economic enterprises have been permitted to operate with greater freedom from state control. Are these the beginnings of profound changes in the Soviet state? Or are they token gestures, intended to raise false hopes in the West, or to strengthen the Soviet system without changing it? We welome change and openness; for we believe that freedom and security go together, that the advance of human liberty can only strengthen the cause of world peace. There is one sign the Soviets can make that would be unmistakable, that would advance dramatically the cause of freedom and peace. General Secretary Gorbachev, if you seek peace, if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, if you seek liberalization: Come here to this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, open this gatet Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall! " ---------------------------- Reagan's Address to the Nation on the Berlin Wall "...We stopped in Berlin to help celebrate the 750th Anniversary of that noble city. I know that, over the years, many of you have seen the pictures and news clips of the wall that divides Berlin. But believe me, no American who sees first-hand the concrete and mortar, the guard posts, the machine gun towers, the dog runs, and the barbed wire can ever again take for granted his or her freedom or the precious gift that is America. That gift of freedom is actually the birthright of all humanity. And that's why, as I stood there, I urged the Soviet leader Mr. Gorbachav to send a new signal of openness to the world by tearing down that wall."
