Thomas Ogle was the guys name, he invented a new super efficient fuel system for the current engines and acheived over 100mpg I think he died of a drug overdose or something but his patent was approved in 1979. Wiki type article about him, why is this NOT being developed? This is amazing, why are no car companies doing this? 100mpg would change EVERYTHING. DD
More: Apparently their is a site about this called fuelvapors.com....here is a link to a very interesting discussion about it. Lin to interesting discussion about vaporizers The U.S. Government owns at least 5 patents for fuel vapor systems. Oil companies own at least 15, and car makers own at least 94. If they were to admit these things work, many people would have to come up with a lot of answers. Oil company profits are at an all time astronomical high as they just continue unabated to rip us apart with their price gouging. They are by far and away the most powerful financial entity on the face of the earth. Do you think for one moment they care about you? They will continue to rip you off until the end of time if they are allowed to. The U.S. Government gets around $6 in taxes every time you fill up. Imagine if you only had to fill up every 3 months, instead of every week. Do you think the bureaucrats are going to give up their golden goose, YOU the consumer? Hmmmmmmm. DD
As I mentioned in the Nissan EV thread, it's not possible at any reasonable speed. It violates the second law of thermodynamics as outlined by the Carnot cycle.
I think the entire principal is that you turn the liquid into vapor, and inject the vapor directly into the pistons, making more efficient use of the gasoline. I thought I read somewhere that you only use about 10-20% of the actual fuel you put in your car, the rest evaporates. So, if this system allows for a higher percentage of the gasoline to be used, why wouldn't it work? And, apparently it already has....just imagine you use this, AND develop battery cars as well....... I know you are big into the whole electrical cars bit, but here is something that has been proven, already happened, and just look at all the patents the car manufacturers and Oil companies bought...... DD
That idea had feet before EFI. Since now we have injectors that atomize the fuel and directly force it into the combustion chamber, any vapor fuel system is obsolete. I know you said you only read this somewhere, but where does the 80-90% of the fuel go? The tank has a gas cap that is pressure checked, the fule system is pressurized and since it is injected it cannot come out of the intake. Where does the vapors supposedly go?
no no casey. DaDakota knows it all. He invented music based rhythm games too. He invented the fuel vapor system and can't release it because 2 others have ownership of the patent and he can't act on it until they give up their share.
Something like 95%+ of the fuel is consumed, it's just that the very process of doing work with the energy contained in the fuel dictates that it's an inefficient process that is governed by a temperature delta. There is an ideal model called the Carnot cycle that says, in this case that the theoretical maximum efficiency of an engine equals the difference in temperature between the hot and cold reservoir divided by the absolute temperature of the hot reservoir. (ambient air temp and exhaust gas temp) Maximum efficiency is achieved only if no new entropy is created (no work is done) In a modern otto cycle engine a stoichiometric air fuel ratio of 14.7/1 is the ideal. Anything leaner than that and you get detonation. It is possible to get a higher efficiency by detonating the fuel instead of burning it, because of the higher thermal gradient. However, this requires a complete redesign of the engine because the air expands too fast to perform the work of pushing the piston down. An extremely short stroke, light weight piston engine might work... a wankle rotary might work but there are all kinds of difficult engineering problems to go along with them like sealing the chamber with much higher pressures. There are efficiency gains to be had in the ICE, but they can't surpass the ideal of the carnot cycle. Things like making electricty from waste heat can help but only up to a point because that dang 2nd law of thermodynamics pops up and the more heat you take out of the exhaust the higher the back pressure on the ICE and you start loosing efficiency all over again. The laws of thermodynamics are like the Mom of the universe. They exist because the universe says so.
What I don't understand is, if there was a golden bullet that either cut down fuel use or used some alternative fuel that was cheap.....it would take one car company somewhere in the world to throw the engine into their cars and they would make a killing. Maybe not in countries that want to drive gas guzzling tanks (I'm not point any fingers at you bloody oil loving Americans! ) but other countries where governments push environmentally friendly technology on a large scale. Then again, I dont understand why, in Australia, a hot, dry continent, every new house isnt built with a rain tank and solar panels installed. I'm sure we'll get to a point where we HAVE to make these changes....but until we have to stop buying big screen TV's because we need to spend all our money on fuel, nothing will change.
http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/ You should watch this movie. Might make your blood boil.
The most difficult class I took as a chemical engineering major was thermodynamics. It is really some crazy stuff. I agree with everything lbpman said. Thermodynamics PWN us.
I am certainly no physicist, but if you read the articles posted above, this guy got more than 200 miles out of 2 gallons of gasoline. And the fact that Oil companies offered him $25 million for the tech should account for something. I hear ya about thermal dynamics, but 400 years ago the world was flat, 100 years ago heavier than air travel impossible, 65 years ago we couldn't fly faster than sound, the laws of physics are constantly rewritten, it would be arrogant of us as a people to think we have physics completely figured out. Funny how a lot of inventions happen because people just try to do things rather than go out of their way finding out why something is NOT possible. While I am not saying this is GUARANTEED to be the answer, the fact that this guy DID IT, and it was reported....should say something. Where did this come from? I never said I know it all, I just posted an interesting article...feel free to ignore it next time. DD
What is the fuel injection system spraying into the cylinders, liquid gasoline, or vapors? How much vapor would it take to fire and move the piston down in each cylinder? If you vaporize the fuel source would you be able to get more piston cycles out of a single teaspoon of gas? Maybe shooting liquid and igniting it in the pistons is not as efficient as shooting gas into the pistons......I believe that is a similar theory to the hydrogen cars. DD
As I mentioned, there is a limit of 14.7/1 fuel air mix that you must have in a normal engine. If you put in any less fuel than that, be it liquid or gas, you've got to completely redesign the engine. I hear ya about always learning new things.... still, there is something about thermodynamics that infers infallibility. In the future, I find it more likely to learn there is no such thing as gravity, that time travel into the past is possible, or that telekinesis exists, than learning of the fall of thermodynamics. As far as the oil companies buying this stuff up, I don't look at it from that angle. I don't think an ant has to be a real threat to anyone before it gets squished.
and that's why you're a baller with your own businesses while we're stuck at dead end jobs sucking up to the boss.
Its politics and business guys, oil companies would die off if something like this was to be immediately created
And the US government would miss out on $6 in taxes each time you fill up...it is a vicious cycle...... Watch that preview for "Who killed the electric car"....fascinating. DD
