Remember that Sonics team from the early 90ies ? It was built on the premise of two young studs (Glove and Kemp) and a bunch of old stoodges: Micheal Cage, Sam Perkins, Ricky Pierce, Eddie Johnson, Nate McMillan Our current team reminds me of that Sonics team. They won a bunch of regular season games, however, in the playoffs you need your stars to step up and Kemp and Glove were too young to carry the burden. Later they became true stars and had a better chance in '96 except by then the supporting cast was too old and brittle and broke down. I remember in '96 Ron Harper and Nate McMillan both had injuries, however, Harper was able to play, while Nate was not. Had the roles been reversed the Sonics would have taken that 72-win Bulls team, I am convinced in that. So, are we setting up ourselves for a similar fate? Will Yao and T-Mac be able to carry us to a title in the next 1-2 years, or will they be too young for that? None of them has been past the first round yet, remember it took Jordan, Shaq and Dream many playoffs failures before they matured enough. Shaq and Jordan were 28 when they got their first titles, Dream was 31. In comparison Yao is 24 and T-Mac is 25. If we don't win title the next couple of years, then the current supporting cast (Jackson, Ward, Mutombo, Howard, Sura) will be too old just when our stars are entering their prime. We'll have to rebuild around them and lose all the continuity. Isn't it better to build a team with somehat younger players in order to build continuity with a very realistic shot at a title in 3-4 years? Of course, you may ask yourself would the 93 Sonics had a different fate had they not been coached by the biggest CHOKER in basketball history (that includes NBA AND international), I don't know...
T-Mac's young, but he's been in the league since high school. He's young but he's a veteran. And Shawn Kemp was never 7'6
Different situation. Seattle matched up terribly with Denver and Phoenix, and their style of play, predicated on forcing turnovers and fastbreaks, doesn't work in the playoffs. Teams adjusted to their traps and were able to beat them in the playoffs. The Rockets will be a slowdown, halfcourt team geared for success in the playoffs. It won't be as fun to watch as the old Sonics teams, but I think it'll be more successful when it counts.
I agree. JVG ball is built to succeed in the playoffs, as evidenced by the Rox ability to keep it relatively close with the Lakers despite their overwhelming playoff experience.
you answered your own question - but there are some other notible differences - the 93 sonics didn't have a real big man (Kemp was a PF) T-mac is better (w/r/t his peers) than Peyton was at the time those older players the Sonics had were higher priced junk - the Rockets did not want to just pay high $$ for young players that they were not confident could grow with 1 & 11. So, they took low risk veteran players, with non-crippling contracts (mo T is now the only albatros contract now) until they find the young pieces they want (via trade or draft) oh yeah... MJ has retired now too (that might help)
First off...NO team was going knock off that 72 win Bulls team! Secondly...you need a center to win the title, (most times unless Jordan is on your team). The rox have ne and that seattle team didn't
Woah the 93 sonics when Kemp still had game..... I know he wasn't 7'6 but the man sure had some sick Hops!
The Rockets are starting to remind me of Larry Brown's old Pacers, circa 94-99... Yao is an infinitely better Rik Smits type... Tmac is the Miller type scoring guard, just much better all-around player and scorer... Cast of veterans (Perkins, McKey, Mark Jackson, Davis boys) surrounding the two centerpieces to take care of the Dirty work... And, most importantly, the Defense-First, Playoff-Tested, Championship-Winning system of a brilliant coach... I think the huge advantage of a Yao/Tmac combo over that old Smits/Reggie duo is what will push this team to heights that team could never reach
Beg to differ. We matched up great with the Bulls. Horry torched Rodman when he was with the Spurs, Cassell/Smith could get it done, No one would stop Hakeem, Clyde could at least match Quitten's production. Elie would make MJ work for some of his points. That's totally besides the point though. Carry on.
True you need a center but not necessarily an offensive center. They had plenty of big bodies to throw in there for defensive matchups and I think that is more key. I think to win a championship you DEFINITELY need a defensive minded center that can clog the lane or intimidate a few shots here and there. They had Perdue, Longley, Wennington and even Bison Dele who was actually above average. Big bodies to throw around and take fouls as needed. I do believe you need a post prescence too and that's what Jordan. Had the bulls not had a huge plethora of centers that were big and bulky and had only centers similar to the likes of Kurt thomas or Brian Grant, I don't think you see Jordan with 6 rings. Maybe 3 at the most.
I do agree with you about the Bulls. You have the greatest guard in the game going at the best center of the game. I think that series would have been one for the ages. Hakeem would have just shaken the shoes right off of Wellington, Perdue (whoever their center was), Clyde would have been just as good as Pippen and Thorpe would have given Rodman a battle. I think Houston would have taken the Bulls to 7 games, but I think when it came down to it Jordan probably would have just willed his team to win. About the center though, thats not true dude! The Pistons had a great defensive center, but he did not win the championship for them and he did not even receive the MVP award. It was completely the team first attitude that pushed them over the top.
Sorry I didnt follow the Rockets much back then...I can't remember if Thorpe was traded to get Drexler or if he was traded to get Barkley...(I'm thinking it was for Clyde )
yeah, it was for clyde. with the way horry shot in the '95 playoffs he would've given rodman huge problems. but of course by '97 (the 72 win team) horry had been traded for barkley so that's who rodman would've matched up with. still pisses me off. hakeem, barkley, drexler versus jordan, pippen, rodman. wow. 5 top 50's, 5 hall of famer's and one of the best rebounders ever. never seeing hakeem and jordan matchup in the finals is a shame. we're either losing 7 game series where the home team wins every game and we should've had homecourt if not for a late tip in by drob in the last game of the year, or by the time hakeem gets some decent role players, jordan retires or comes back and isn't as good for the year, then when it looks set to happen karla bear hugs and flopton nails the 3.
I'm almost positive the 72-win team was in 96, when the Bulls played the Sonics. In which case the championship roster would have been intact. I still think we could have beaten them, if we had captured a little bit of the magic from 95.
you are correct - the '93-'94 sonics lost in the first round of the playoffs The '92-93 sonics got beat by the Suns ! http://www.sonicscentral.com/9394.html http://www.sonicscentral.com/9293.html
wow, in my head i knew they won 72 one year after our 2nd title and i knew we didn't get barkley until two years after our 2nd title and yet somehow i went and posted that comment anyway. you're correct, 72 vs championship roster. i still say they beat us pretty good. the barkley team was definitely better.
The Rockets' team balance is far more akin to that of the Lakers and not just because they too had an awesome C & SG combo. The Lakers won 61 games but no Western Conference title in Kobe's second season paired with Shaq in 97-98. By the time Shaq and Kobe won their first championship in 99-00, the team had moved on from Eddie Jones, Nick van Exel and Elden Campbell and they did the business with Glen Rice, Brian Shaw, Ron Harper and AC Green. It could be argued that the difference between '98 and '00 was Kobe's improvement but even between the first championship and the third championship you see that Ron Harper, AC Green and Glen Rice had left and Devean George, Lindsey Hunter and Samaki Walker had become key contributors. Similarly, the Bulls won their first 3-peat with Horace Grant, Bill Cartwright, BJ Armstrong, John Paxson, Stacey King, et al. They won their second 3-peat with Kukoc, Longley, Kerr, Ron Harper and Dennis Rodman. The lesson seems to be that winning teams regenerate their support cast and continue to win so long as the star players remain hungry and dominant. Support players will move on and it's the GM's role to get support players who want to play for a contender and who won't tie the franchise down with bad contracts. We've seen Carroll do this with his refusal to pay silly money for Fisher and Hudson and his signing of Ward and Sura for a combined sum that is less than the MLE. Ward and Sura will not be difficult to move on when the day comes and, hopefully, better players will be lured to replace them. I don't understand why there's so much pessimism on the forum. It's as if we're Lakers or Mavs or Nets or fans of any other team that's had a bad off season. With 23 and 25 year old cornerstones, the window of opportunity is plenty big enough for a dynasty.
The good thing about this team is that we're poised to make the second round. T-Mac has tasted first round defeat a few times. Yao has tasted it once. We know Yao is a fast learner, he ALWAYS learns from his mistakes. No doubt in my mind, he will do better in these playoffs. I'm pretty sure our star duo are now able, willing and expereienced enough to pass the first round. But they will also have the extra push from JJ, Ward, and JH - all playof tested veterans. Then there's the rest who have also all been to the playoffs: Sura, Lue (Championship), Boki, MoT, and hopefully Mutombo. We're looking at so much experience. T-Mac has been in the league for 6 years I believe - that's more than Francis. BUT HE'S YOUNGER. Now all this is good, but the better part is that... In 2 years, when our role players are too old, if we haven't won, it's perfectly fine because here is what our payroll looks like AFTER 2 seasons: MoT (1 year, 9M) Howard (3 years, 6M per) Yao (MAX) T-Mac(MAX) Sura (1 year, 4M or so) Ward (1 year, 2 or 3M) As of now, those are our contracts. ALL are favorable contracts, except for Howard. We can package these guys for some young players. The salary number for those 6 is right around 45M. Now, we will have some draft picks, some signings, and some acquisitions, but overall, we are not tied to these players through their old/cranky years. We are very much flexible enough so that, once these guys can't produce, we can go and overhaul the role players. We're in very good shape right now, a bit like the Spurs or Lakers, more than the Sonics.
