What exactly defines a role player? Laimbeer, Rodman, Horry, Toney, Mo Cheeks Those would be my all time role players although I think it could be argued that Laimbeer, Rodman, Toney and Cheeks were all more than role players during their careers since they were asked to make major contributions for their teams. Is Thorpe considered a roll player? Not IMO but if he is then he certainly belongs on the list. Bill Cartwright is probably a better definition of a roll player that made major contributions at center then Laimbeer since IMO Laimbeer was more than just a roll player. Horrace Grant was not much more than a role player with the bulls or the Lakers while I believe that Rodman was most definitely a main piece to the Bulls last three championship wins and no more valuable to Detroit than Mahorn was during their championship years. Mario Ellie, Jim Paxon, Vinnie Johnson are probably the best three examples of role players at shooting guard. Robert Reid would also have to be on that list since his job was to cover the likes of Larry Bird and Magic Johnson in the Rockets two NBA championship series in the 80’s. Upon forther review my all time role player team is the following: PG – Robert Reid of the Rockets SG – Vinnie Johnson of the Pistons SF – Robert Horry of the Rockets and Lakers PF – Horrace Grant of the Bulls and Lakers C – Bill Cartwright of the Bulls Honorable Mention: Mario Ellie of the Rockets and Spurs and Jim Paxon (or was it John?) of the Bulls
for the past 20yrs as the thread stated (thus no Wes Unseld), I'm so down for crash's list. but, like he says, who is eligible and not. The reason I mentioned Nate McMillian, is because I didn't think Mo Cheeks would be eligibly. However, I do agree with codell, that Bobby Jones is possibly above Horry; the argument for Horry being more years of effective role playing with a contender. Then again, is Kukoc eligible or not. Det the Threat has a point, too...most definitely. But I still say McHale and Kukoc are the best 6th men award winners ever. I still thing the hardest to define is the guard positions. I mean, who is a role playing PG....that's not based on stats, rigth? Who is a role playing SG??
Let em say me definition of a role player is someone who holds back their stats for the good of the team and is not the #1 option on the team: PG: Mo Cheeks SG: Joe Dumars SF: Bobby Jones PF: Dennis Rodman C: Bill Laimbeer
MacBeth is dead on with Mark Eaton at Center...One of the most efficient shot blockers of all time...more blocks/minute than Olajuwon
"Oh, a sarcasm detector...that's a REALLY useful invention" I think he's talking about Kareem Rush...and the guy below him is Jellybean, of course...
that's too broad, imo. Isn't that also the definition of a point guard? By your definition, Magic Johnson has to be considered a role-player like Mo Cheeks. btw: Cheeks was an All-Star in 1983, and made it 3 other times. maybe we should be saying that if the PG is one of the recognized leaders of the team...he's not a role player. imo, Cheeks was a core leader...as opposed to guys like Nate McMillian, who platooned two positions. I also can't see Joe Dumars being a role player. He was definitely a top option in the 1989 Finals when he won Finals MVP. He was 2nd leading scorer in 1990, and he became leading scorer in 1991. Role players do not win Finals MVP and become a #1 or 2 scorer and a perennial All-Star.
I think the definition of a role player is someone that can be removed from the team and semi-easily replaced by someone else without hurting the overall success of the team itself. If the Lakers didn't have Scott or Green and instead had Buck Williams and Fat Lever, would they still have been legit?? Pistons: Laimbeer and Aguirre with Eaton and Paul Pressey?? Bulls: Paxon/Kerr and Cartwright/Longley with Walter Davis and Polynice?? I think youd have a hard time replacing Cheeks (one of the all time steals leaders) on the Sixers or Dumars on the Pistons or even Rodman on the Bulls. Rod was the league's best rebounder and maybe its best defender. I have a hard time calling him a role player. You take him off Chicago and replace him with an average PF and I don't think they are nearly as strong (they were not quite as strong with Grant as the PF).
IMO, I think Bobby Jackson and Eric Snow are current pg roleplayers (although I'm not too sure how to define why I think they are.)
I don't think you can do it that way either. Sometimes lesser players make all-star teams as a direct result of their team's success or because of a weakness at that position (i.e. James Donaldson making the all star roster in 88 per Easy). If Byron Scott was on any other team besides the Lakers, would he still be an all-star??? I know the following were all-stars: Rodman Cheeks Scott Dumars Eaton (pretty sure he made one all-star team) HoGrant (not totally positive if he was or not) Not sure if the following were ever all-stars (I don't think they were): Laimbeer Jones Toney The Microwave Elie (positive) McMillan (positive) EDIT: Actually, I think a role player can be an all-star as long as hes not a perennial all-star (like Otis Thorpe; he made 1 all-star team but he is definitely a role player IMO).
I wasn't trying to redefine "Roleplayer." Just starting a tangent: Best players who never made an allstar squad. Maybe for a different thread. If you want to change the defintion of Role Player to have some type of definable cut-off point, maybe you could say they are allowed one All-Star appearance. btw: Laimbeer (at least twice), Toney (at least twice) and Jones all made it. Jones was like a 3 or 4 time All-Star.
Otis Thorpe Vernon Maxwell Kenny Smith Robert Horry Mario Elie Sam Cassell ...at center, anyone not named Hakeem Olajuwon.
hm, very interesting I'd suggest PJ Brown. He has been one of the most hunted FA this summer, big defender and rebounder who can shoot the J from midrange. Otis Thorpe, Charles Oakley, Anthony Mason, Jeff Hornacek, Christian Laettner, Kevin Duckworth, Terry Porter, Chuck Person, Dennis Scott, there are too many...
I think Role Player should be atleast defined as NO ALL-STAR appearances because an invitation to the All Star Game should represent a certain stature taht propels them beyong just being a role player. Come on...Kareem? Wes UNseld? These are NBA 50 Greats...they should never even be considered ROLE PLAYERS. Role players are just THAT...they play a one dimensional role whether it be 3-pointers, defense, passing, or what not. Scoring cannot be defined as being a one dimensional role. PG: John Paxson (clutch shooter...forget Kerr) SG: Mario Elie (Defensive Specialist, Clutch shooter) SF: Robert Horry (Defense and 3-pointer) PF: Dennis Rodman (BEAST) C: Mark Eaton (Who doesn't want a blocking machine?) To my knowledge, none of these guys ever made an all-star appearance. It would be great to have Paxson, Elie, and Horry just jack up 3s and let Rodman grab rebounds and Eaton block shots. This team could go places
