Could you please elaborate on the large ideological differences between Salafism and Wahhabism? (and on the commonalities)
The ISIS wants to return to the good old days. This is why their leader has stylized his name after the first caliphate: Abu Bakr. Al-Qaeda also wants this from what I understand. However, the Saudis are not trying to re-establish the caliphate.
If the plane didn't hit the Pentagon, what happened to the people that were on that plane? Were they all secreted away by the U.S. government and either murdered or have been hidden for the past 14 years?
If enough people in power agree to do something, anything is plausible! Having said that I personally don't think that either of those two things occurred. That is what I choose to believe, even though I am not without doubt! Galadriel: And nine, nine rings were gifted to the race of Men, who above all else desire power. ....... ....... .......
I think there's a very thin line between most logical conclusion and most convenient conclusion. And believing multiple synchronized box cutter hijackings happening simultaneously in a country that doesn't have a strong history of planes being hijacked isn't very logical... That story line is no different from the typical comic book, cartoon, and movie plots that involve the world trade centers being under attack. They're not even able to pull shyt like that off in their part of the world but yet Americans like to buy beach front property in Idaho and believe they could accomplish it here. It's not about pointing out who did it... It's about there being reasonable doubt regarding who they told us who did it... And the things that happened after 9-11 shouldn't be ignored... Which makes it look even more suspicious. Yea, because those guys are beyond reproach... Lol.
I don't know how old you are but the US actually has a long history of plane hijackings. Further if you know anything about the history was that prior to 911 the SOP for a hijacked plane was to cooperate with the hijackers as many US hijackings were done for money or for transporting the hijackers to another place. There were a series of hijackings where the hijackers took the planes to Cuba. The 911 hijackers were crazy fanatics but they weren't idiots. They knew this and Al Qaeda had extensively researched this. Osama Bin Ladin's own comments show that. Further synchronizing an attack of this sort isn't that difficult when plane schedules and routes are well publicized. Other countries have had to deal with this. In the 1990's Algerian terrorists attempted to hijack a plane that they wanted to blow up over Paris. Healthy skepticism is a good thing and we shouldn't just accept the 911 Commission report on face value. The problem is though is continuing to cling to such beliefs based upon mistaken and incomplete information and just flat out ignorance like believing that the US hasn't had a history of hijackings.
That's like the easiest part of the plan. Get four planes leaving at roughly the same time. Smuggle a knife on board. Take control of the cockpit. Start flying.
If only we had some way of knowing what was happening inside any of the planes on September 11th. Imagine how helpful it would be if someone had contacted people on the ground and told them what was happening. Those same people might have even tried to stop a hijacking. Maybe they would say something inspirational like "Let's roll!" that could be repeated on the news over and over again.
I said a strong history... The Cuba-US hijackings saw it's most activity during the 50's - 70's when airport security was practically none existent and it was easier to get guns on planes. Since the 80's hijackings in the US (particularly successful ones) have been limited. So having multiple successful hijackings inside of the US with box cutters is suspicious, IMO... The CIA's boy Bin Ladin may be a very logically convenient scapegoat. Do you know how much herion/opium was coming out of Afghanistan when Ladin and his people were running things over there before the US invaded...??? A group did pull off multiple hijackings in the 70's (I think Pakistan and Israel...?)... But that was back when you could carry machine guns and bombs on a plane. You're talking about box cutters and knives... How do you not find that just a little suspicious.
No wonder so many people believe Obama is going to invade Texas, too many paranoid lunatics in this country.
This PublicPolicyPolling.com report is a couple of years old but is chock full of information on the nutty stuff many of us believe... Some highlights: Q1 Do you believe global warming is a hoax, or not? Do ................................................................... 37% Do not ............................................................. 51% Not sure .......................................................... 12% Q4 Do you believe that a secretive power elite with a globalist agenda is conspiring to eventually rule the world through an authoritarian world government, or New World Order, or not? Do ................................................................... 28% Do not ............................................................. 46% Not sure .......................................................... 25% Q5 Do you believe Saddam Hussein was involved in the September 11th, 2001, attacks on America, or not? Do ................................................................... 28% Do not ............................................................. 51% Not sure .......................................................... 22% Q16 Do you believe media or the government adds secret mind-controlling technology to television broadcast signals, or not? Do ................................................................... 15% Do not ............................................................. 70% Not sure .......................................................... 15% Q20 Do you believe the United States government knowingly allowed the attacks on September 11th, 2001, to happen, or not? Do ................................................................... 11% Do not ............................................................. 78% Not sure .......................................................... 11% What is encouraging here is that only 11% believe this 9/11 drivel. What is frightening, is that they all seem to belong to Clutchfans.
Honestly, prior to 9/11 it was pretty easy to bring a weapon on board that wasn't a gun. I myself carried a small ceremonial knife that was a gift - security had taken it out and then let it through. No one could conceive that you could hijack a plane with a small weapon like that. It was total complacency. The fact that it was simultaneous means nothing. That's actually Al Qaeda's MO throughout their history - and one of the 4 planes actually failed in it's mission. When someone hijacks a plane, people don't think the hijackers are intending to use the plane as a missile. You do understand that in 2001 most hijackings never resulted in using the plane as a bomb? You do understand that the logical reaction to a hijacking would be to cooperate with the guy who has a weapon when you do not? It was an era when pilot doors were not locked. What's illogical is to think this was a conspiracy by nefarious secret forces. Just think for a minute what that would imply. It would imply that someone had the incredible foresight to realize that some kind of major terrorist attack would result in the entry of the U.S. into war against Iraq. Whom could predict that? It would imply that someone believed that they could trust a ton of people with their plot and not get caught. Let's take a look at the people they would have had to trust: -The 14 hijackers who were well established Islamic fanatics. -All the associated people who trained and worked with said fanatics. -Osama Bin Laden -All the airport security personnel who would have had to allow the box cutters through. -The CIA and FBI who would have needed to be told to ignore any kind of signs or evidence of an impending attack and ensured they would pick up on the conversations, money transfers, training, visas, and any dealing this nefarious group would have had to have to execute an elaborate plot. -The group within this nefarious group of plotters that none of them would ever grow a conscious or feel guilty and out the plan before or after the plot. They would have also had to assume that the passengers and crew of all four planes would behave as expected in face of box cutters. There's a lot more that would have had to happen. It's safe to assume that a conspiracy like this would have had to involve 100's if not 1000's of people. That's not rational to think that no one would have spilled the beans or grown a guilt conscious. What is rational is that a very well off and intelligent, maniacal, and blood thirsty man in Bin Laden hatched a plan to fly planes into American icons and got a group of fanatical believers to take on a mission to learn to fly planes, get a plane ticket at the same time supported by thugs to hijack a plane and fly it into buildings. Why do you dismiss the reality which is both logical, and in which all the evidence supports?
I never questioned being able to get a small sharp object on a plane... I questioned successful hijackings of multiple planes on US soil/air space with sharp little weapons when shyt like that has never been done (at least in our generation) and those dudes couldn't even get a underwear bomb to go off over here. And I haven't said "conspiracy" in any of my post _ I said "suspicious" _ as in ---> this shyt looks suspicious... Especially with the events that happened because of 9/11. But all you're doing is presenting an argument with the information you were given and you trust in those who gave you that information 100%... Which is equivalent to Christians using the bible to support their arguments. But a few can fool many. For example, it probably wouldn't take many people to say a few planes were hijacked when the planes actually weren't hijacked (not saying that's what happened, just a thought). I say the same thing when having discussions about religion... Ha...!!! And it's funny because some of them (maybe many) don't find religion nor the 9/11 incident (and the events that followed 9/11) the least bit suspicious. I feel like Rick Grimes running up out of Atlanta...
That Bush used 9/11 as a pretense to invade Iraq has nothing to do or have any connection with 9/11 being a conspiracy involving the US government.
I dont follow your logic. Prior to 9/11, if someone did hijack a plane with knifes and use the plane as a bomb, dont you think we would have seriously clamped down on security? Why do you think hijackings have all but been stopped? If someone hijacks a plane, the people are going to take it back. Extremists know this. Long gone are the days of hijacking a plane to escape a country or make a political statement or try to free comrades in arms. Keep in mind there is evidence that many of these hijackers did not even know it was a suicidal mission. They calmed the crowds, reassured that everything would be ok if they complied. This is why Flight 93 fought back. They found out it was a suicidal mission. Your logic is ... "It never happened before so why would it ever happen?".
I disagree with your premise. Lets assume, a small group of people, lets just call them PNAC, had the resources and the wherewithal to pull something like this off. They were each rich, influential and powerful individuals. Their goals were to get a regime change in Iraq and ramp up the United States defenses through a mass inflow of money and technology, which they only thought was possible by a catastrophic Pearl Harbor type event. 1.) Lets start with Bin Laden, and consider that perhaps he wasn't some rogue terrorist mastermind, but instead a PNAC Asset. Here's our first set of coincidences. Bin Laded had close ties to the Bush family and had dealings with the CIA in the past, as an anti soviet freedom fighter. Evidence? No. Coincidence? Maybe. 2.) So then, even though we haven't shown Bin Laden was not an asset, lets just cede that it could have been a possibility. So Bin Laden, as a shill, rounds up some clueless extremists and hatches a plan to fly some planes into the WTC. I probably don't need to source this, its fairly common knowledge he was the mastermind. So the terrorists, didn't need to "be in on it" at all, rather just doing what terrorists do. 3.) So lets now assume PNAC doesn't want just a couple planes flying into a building, they want a grand spectacle of doom, which will spark a wave of fear and panic in order to con people to funding this huge war machine. If that were the case, they would plant bombs in the buildings to ensure not only do the planes fly into the buildings, but the buildings come tumbling down in on live TV, to be witnessed over and over again by just about everyone. So in order to pull this off, the PNAC would really just need a few things. 1.) A motive 2.) A shill in Bin Laden 3.) Willing terrorists to be manipulated by Bin Laden 4.) A way to bypass security at the airports to get the terrorists on board 5.) A way to bypass security at the WTC to plant the bombs So, as far as the coincidences go, PNAC, is of course the Project for the New American Century, made up of your favorite Neo-Cons, whose publicly available principles outline their desire to rebuild America's defenses, and overturn the Iraq regime. One of their signature literary works, as seen below, of course outlines EXACTLY WHAT THEY NEEDED to happen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century So in regards to Bin Laden, we don't very much information other than his family is in business with the Bush family, and he received money from the CIA which also has close ties to the Bush family (Ex director) http://www.denverpost.com/rodriguez/ci_4319898 http://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/jan/17/yemen.islam So then you have to ask how is it they could get bombs into the building or terrorists onto a plane. Next coincidence is Securacom, a security firm, with a key member of management being another Bush whose identified main clients were the WTC, the airline the terrorists used, and the airport where the terrorist took off from. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratesec https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_for_the_day_of_the_September_11_attacks No, direct evidence sure, just alot of coincidences. Lets just break it down one by one. 1.) Powerful group of men, publicly outline their goals, and include a hugely unlikely event needed to secure those goals. 2.) Hugely unlikey event occurs, orchestrated by a terrorist whose family has close ties to the family of one of the powerful group of men. 3.) Terrorist boards (with weapons) plane and airport, whose security is overseen by the brother of one of the powerful men. 4.) Plane crashes into building. Building falls down, leading to questions by ~2200 licensed architects, engineers, etc. about what does not seem physically possible, without detonation devices. 5.) Bombs could not have been planted without bypassing building security, run by same security company who is the brother of one of powerful men. 6.) Event leads to achieving goals outlined. /tinfoilhat
