Jam, Um, your last post actually supports Freak's argument. You say that fans are interested in the overall record, not the record at home. Well, seeing that our away record is actually better than our home record shouldn't we be expecting more fans at the arena cheering for our team that is hovering around a decent .500 record? If all games were played in Houston, our record would be even worse. You reckon that a team that is going towards the playoffs will have a better attendance. Fair. Logical. However, the chasm between Houston fans attending games during losing seasons and fans attending during winning seasons is huge. Why does Freak's argument against the Houston fans cause such a stir in your mind? Are you such a fervent Houstonian that you can't accept our lackluster fan base? The facts are there. Houston is the 4th largest city in the USA and yet we can't get a full arena every night. Heck, the Bulls had their seats filled long after their last championbship. We were out of contention for less than a year, and the fans stopped coming. Freak himself is a Rocket fan. Don't you think he would attend games did he live in Houston? Of course he would. Yet, he can bash the rest of the fans can't he? I see no reason not to be able to do this. He is not bashing the real fans-- most of us here are just that. ------------------ Nederland 2002 Rocketman95 on board. Check out his latest game recaps. [This message has been edited by Ace (edited January 28, 2001).]
HP and jam, I don't feel all Houston fans suck. In fact, more people like you would obviously help the Rockets. That's the point. I would most definitely behave the same way you do if I had the money to attend a lot games and if I lived in Houston (I'd be a bit more toned down-- just the way I am ). Your take on who is the chicken and who is the egg actually suggests that the players are not affected by attendance. They are. They have said so. I can understand why. "losing record at home vs low home attendance is chicken-and-egg." Ah, so Houston fans do suck? Our record dictates the amount of fans (I would understand a Clippers record-- not .500 like we're at) at this point? Are you insulting yourself here or something? Don't think so. Neither did Freak. [This message has been edited by Ace (edited January 25, 2001).]
You know, now that I think about it, I was furious with some of our fellow fans at the game last night. People aroud us were leaving during the last few minutes of the 4th quarter. None of the 8 or 10 season ticket holders we always sit with, but it seemed like everyone else was heading for the exits. People were leaving while the ball was in play with less than a minute left. Blocking my view of the final seconds. Outrageous. Lots of parents and kids. When the horn sounded at the end of regulation, people started streaming out of the aisles. Infuriating. Outrageous. heyp and I noticed this and started sprinting for better seats in the lower prom during the timeout before the OT. We had to dodge a huge number of people leaving. Seemed like there were more people leaving before OT than after OT. Those that left are piss-poor fans. Not only did we not sell-out, 1/2 to 2/3 of the fans that did attend were gone before the OT. I take it all back, TheFreak. We do have a lot of piss-poor fans, and I was furious with them last night. (can we kiss and make up?)
Ace, I object to blaming fans. I object more since we've already talked about this twice. I object to this quote by TheFreak. "It's just terrible that this young team is playing so hard every night, and the city doesn't even appreciate them." It is a meaningless stereotype. I also think the fans can only help defensive energy significantly, so I simply think the title is silly, if he really believes that. Albeit Jamcrackers comments about being pissed at the fans, I thought we were pretty loud in overtime, and we still didn't help them get a rebound. Fans aren't going to solve problems. If they are, I may as well sell my season tickets, because we aren't going anywhere.
jamcracker -- think nothing of it. I was at the Vancouver game, and nobody was standing during the introductions! What kind of crap is that? This was the first game I went to all year, and I was pretty amazed. The attendance numbers have been awful, but even the people that are there seem to not care. Ace -- thanks. heypartner -- I think you are so wrong. I'm not talking about the people that are actually at the games. I'm talking about the millions of other people that live in the city that don't bother to show up. What don't you understand about the term "better attendance"? This says nothing about the people that actually come to the games. "The city doesn't appreciate them" is far from a meaningless stereotype. It is a freaking fact. The Rockets' have the 2nd worst attendance in the league! If more people in the city were like jamcracker and hardwood, the Rockets wouldn't have this problem! If 'fans aren't going to solve problems', like you say, why not get rid of homecourt advantage? Why even try to get a good seed during the regular season? According to you, it doesn't matter. Fans aren't going to solve problems, so teams may as well play all their playoff games on the road.
Saw something posted by ROXTXIA on another thread that's appropriate here. Bear with me, this is gonna be long. I'm verbose, what can I say? The other day, Sacramento lost to San Antonio (national TV). Webber was asked (off camera) what will he consider most in free agency? In descending order of importance, his response: 1. Teammates. 2. A city larger than Sacramento. 3. Wants to stay in the West. 4. The fans. 5. Compensation and what-not. (I'm kinda vague on this point.) If we want CWebb (or another major free agent) it would help to have greater attendance. Players DO care about what a team's fan base is. Its just more fun to play every game in front of fanatical sell-out crowds (which Sacramento has always gotten, even when it was bad) than in half-filled arenas with laxidasical fans. I'm not there every day so I can't say that the fans are laxidasical, but attendance figures are readily available. Other factors come ahead of the fans in a player's mind, but don't tell me it doesn't factor into their thinking. ------------------ I am Jack's utter lack of surprise. www.clutchtown.com
I must admit, it has been a while since I was able to attend a Houston Rockets game. As a comparison, for those who have witnessed both, which group of fans are worse - Houston Rockets fans or UT basketball fans? ------------------ The Rockets will be the NBA champions. Believe.
There is nothing I hate worse than the fans being blamed for poor performance by a team. Choosing to dish out dollars for pro basketball is not a civic responsibility! I love the Rockets, but it's not my fault they have overpriced tickets. This team, at .500, has the fourth highest priced average ticket in the league...the league with the highest average price of any of the other major sports. Demand for NBA seats is not elastic. Attendance is down across the league this year. And, oh yeah..by the way..aren't these guys SUPPOSED to be professionals?? The Astros are my favorite pro sports franchise...but there was nothing worse than the whole "step up to the plate" campaign. When buying a ticket to a game becomes a responsibility it seems less attractive to me. In the end, it's simply another entertainment option. Which by the way, the Rockets seem to have picked up on since their recent ads compare attending a game to going to see a movie!!!! The Sacramento Kings have sold out their building for years and years and years. It did them little good until they ended up with C. Webb, one of the 5 best players in the league right now. Now C. Webb says he probably won't stay in Sacremento...looks like fan support isn't high on his list of priorities! ------------------
If you'll look at the past, Houston fans have traditionally not supported teams (by way of attending the games) that weren't winning. The Oilers, Astros, Rockets, & the major colleges have all experienced low attendance during the times when they weren't very good. I can only attribute this to the fans wanting value for their money. With the history of Houston's fan support, the management of the organizations have to accept some of the responsibility for the low attendance. They have to put a winning or at least competitive team on the field at all times. The Rockets are going through a transition period with the retooling of the roster & offense. They're playing competitively now, but I'm afraid that they'll have to do it for the rest of this year & maybe part of next year, before the fans start packing the Compaq Center again. This probably won't ease the frustrations of those that have been complaining about the attendance, but it's the only explanation I can come up with. Houston fans are not rabid sports fans like the "Dog Pound" in Cleveland & I don't think they ever will be. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Hottoddie (edited January 28, 2001).]
Actualy Sacramento did not sell out until they became good. ------------------ "We need to fockass".....Dream back in the day
I just wish the fans that attended were loud. Most of the time, they only start yelling if its a close game in the last 2 minutes, or if the Rockets are making a comeback. I have noticed that Steve has been waving his arms to get the crowd yelling, and they have responded nicely. He should do that more often. ------------------ "Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning how to put food on their family while being put to death."
Winning cures everything! how many times have we heard this. Teams that suck and really suck at home, whether it is the Bulls or the Lakers, will have poor home attendance (except Sac-town where there is nothing else to do there). I have been a season ticketholder for 10 years and I have seen the attedance fluctuations. Last year, we sucked after November and attendance was off, but we still managed some sell-outs. Here is a reality check...We are now almost 2 years removed from the playoffs, on the verge of another lottery pick and we should expect low attendance--what team would not expect this? The Bulls are not selling out like the ole days either. In general, people do not like dropping jack on a losing proposition. We have to grant that, many of these folks are not basketball junkies like some of us. Fans in Houston may not be basketball maniacs, but we know how to throw a playoff party on Richmond. This is something we should all appreciate. We may not sell-out in non-playoff years, but we also do no burn cars, riot in the streets and assault each other when we win either! I will take the laid-back approach versus the riot approach anyday. ------------------ "Their Tiger Kung Fu is strong, but our Dragon will defeat them!"
he he, you have a nice point there.. but also, certain players do play better exposed to a large crowd, it's just a fact, I played ball in High School (I finished last year) and I know for a fact that everytime out gym was packed all of us players (not just me) were jacked as hell to get out there and you always get that little extra adrenaline.. but as Rockets start winning a few more, I believe the attendence will go up, so it's all good. ------------------ against all odds
The BBS contains about 1 or 2 % at the most of the fans in Houston. If people are TRULY concerned about attendance and want to pull the guilt trip, posting on this BBS isn't going to help. How about going out into HOUSTON itself and posting things on poles, and put up flyers? I'm sorry it just gets annoying with people complaining about attendance. If attendance was REALLY the concern about the people talking about it, posting on a BBS that contains a smaller percentage of the fans sure isn't going to help matters. ------------------ No sleep and no trade info make RocksMillenium something, something!
Freak - I was at the Vancouver game, and nobody was standing during the introductions! I'm guilty of that myself. If we leave my house at 7:25 sharp, we get to our Summit seats just in the nick of time for tipoff. I haven't sat through the introductions all year. :embarrassed:
Unfortunately, a big chunk of this BBS is made up of non-Houstonians, or at least people removed from the homeland for a while... Much as I would love to attend every single Rockets game in the Summitt, unfortunately I have to listen to Jim & Gene on 15 second delay using my 33.6 modem, and my Audio NBA League Pass. And as for the general Houstonian population, I can't really speak for everyone, but I can say for sure that all my friends and family at home are pretty much the dictionary definition of ambivalence. In fact, most of my friend tease me good-naturedly for still being a fan. They don't see the value in rooting for a non-playoff team with players they've never heard of. But talking to my own family is the worst, it's really sad. I'll be on the phone with my dad, and I'll be like, "Hey dad, did you hear about Hakeem?" ("No, I don't keep up anymore") "Oh, well it looks like he might get traded, or even waived. Can you believe that? HAKEEM?" ("I thought he retired last season?") "*SIGH*" Mom is worse. "Hey mom, are you watching the Rockets game?" ("I didn't know they were playing") "You've gotta go turn it on, they're KILLING the Lakers!" ("The Lakers... isn't Shaquille on the Lakers?") "Yes mom, and Francis has like 25 and it's only the third quarter!" ("Oh, isn't that the new guy you were so excited about, what's his name... Francis Anderson? I just don't know the players anymore, I miss Sam and Chucky...") "*SIGH* Steve Francis mom, he's VERY VERY good, he's going to be a big superstar in the league in a couple of years. Y'all should really watch the development of this team now, cause they're going to be great soon. They might even get Chris Webber this summer..." ("Chris who?") "Nevermind, Mom" It's really sad, but at least with the people I know, it's absolutely true. The average Houstonian just doesn't care about the Rockets right now. They have no identity. They don't know them, and so they don't care for them. I can't stand it, but I try to stay upbeat and enthusiastic with people I talk to. They'll catch the spirit eventually. I just hope they catch it a little sooner than Big Parade: Part III. ------------------ "There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and STATISTICS..." - Mark Twain - [This message has been edited by DarkHorse (edited January 29, 2001).]
This has probably been brought up before, but I believe that the ticket price might have a little to do with low attendance numbers. The prices seem somewhat outrageous to me. The team would have to at least give me the impression that they were serious contenders before I would pay $140.00 for a seat that not to long ago went for about $50.00. ------------------
I'm a typical fan who could probably afford to go to at least 3 games per year based on income. I made alot less money 8 or 9 years ago and I was able afford to go to 10 home games back then. The Rockets work hard but they are nothing to be excited about. They didn't win a championship during the 1992 and 1993 season but I was going and breaking my bank because they were exciting, particularly in 1993. The best teams in the league would walk into the Summit thinking it's an easy win... then lo and behold, they get blown away. That is what fans want to see and what they want to pay for. We are not obligated to watch these games. If I will spend $300 (a date included) on a 2 to 3 hour event, I expect to be entertained. If teams like the Lakers, Blazers, Spurs, Jazz, Wolves, or anyone with a better record than the Rockets walk into the Compaq Center... I expect the Rockets to beat them and blow them away. I don't go there to watch Turbo. I don't go there to watch Clutch the Bear or the Dancers or listen to those silly sound effects. I go there to see the Rockets kick some butt. Judging from what I see on Fox Sports home games on TV, I'm better off watching Gladiator on my DVD. ------------------
hey nalgar, nice to see a new member, but I'll have to call you on this one. "I'm a typical fan . . ." . . . "Judging from what I see on Fox Sports home games on TV, I'm better off watching Gladiator on my DVD." Typical Rocket fans would rather watch Rocket games than Gladiator, right? Don't call yourself a Rocket fan, then say you'd rather watch Gladiator (a crappy movie anyway). At least you can watch all the Rocket games live on TV. Lots of our fellow cc.net'ers have to get by with Audio League Pass or only get one game a week on Australian cable. And here you are, calling youself a fan, telling us you have FSSW, and watching Gladiator instead?!? Outrageous. Did you mean to say "Well, I used to be a typical fan, but then the Rockets got boring and ticket prices went up, so now I prefer crappy movies like Gladiator." I know, I know, you were kidding, right? [This message has been edited by jamcracker (edited January 30, 2001).]
