When you're not in poverty, of course it is! Don't you know that all poor people are just lousy, lazy sorry excuses for human beings??
Damn right it is. I have a saying that is on my favorite coffee cup. Underneath a skull and crossbones it says simply "Results not excuses." The only person you have to fault for not conquering your piece of the American dream is yourself. Work hard, invest your money and employ good decision-making (like not spending your paycheck on beer, cigarettes and lottery tickets) and you will succeed.
That is ridiculous. People are poor because of their choices, not because some evil superclass is repressing them or there aren't enough opportunities. If you want a frickin' job in this country, you can get one. It might not be something you want to do, but it is a job that puts money in your wallet. My father worked throughout h/s building trawl boards and shucking oysters. In his day it was unconscienable to even think of doing anything but work. Maybe if we didn't have such an expansive welfare system we wouldn't need a large influx of illegal migrant workers to do all the menial jobs Americans think they are too good to do.
Actually they can be poor not because of choices or a superclass keeping them down exactly. Take a guy who works 2-3 jobs one of which is freelance, because the pay is decent and he's able to follow the part of AMerican Dream of owning your own business and working for yourself. He's able to budget time around his wife and building a life together. His other job might be a part time job to make additional money. Then one day it turns out he has a major health problem, be it diabetes, MS, injuries resulting from an accident etc. The guy doesn't have health insurance despite working very hard, and more than one job. The medical treatment alone could put him in the poor house, and since his income was above a certain level he doesn't qualify for additional help. Now this guy's choices are to have less than quality and sufficient health care, or to be poor, and possibly in debt. I know several people who all worked hard, some of them worked more than one job, and had things similar to this happen. It wasn't their choices nor the evil of a superclass(Except those that are against health care for all) that they ended up poor.
How did this go from a rumor about the Dixie Chicks having a dontaion refused by the Red Cross to an argument over whether being poor is a choice or a societal consequence???
That might have been, at least partly, me. And also concerning poverty I´d like to say: The worst jobs pay much to little. You can work hard and still not be able to make ends meet. Especially if you have kids. The limited health care and social security systems in the US also of course affect (or doesn´t affect enough) those who can´t afford private insurance the most. Yes it is possible to get out of poverty. The american dream has come true for some. I believe hard work is not enough though. You still need luck and opportunity. You need to be strong to not get totally broken down from cleaning hotel rooms during the day and waiting tables at night. All the while living at a motel (the worst kind) because you can´t afford the paying of one months rent up front that is required for getting a better and more affordable rental appartment (if there are any such apartments where you live). All in all there are many things that keep you down. It´s hard to get out of it. You don´t need to be lazy or make bad desicions. Who profits from this? From the cheap labor? The low taxes? Who created this system? Who made the rules? Who´s keeping it in place? I think theese are the questions that lead to people believing it´s the rich people opressing them.
Legendary 21, keep up the good work. It is nice to have another social democrat on the bbs. I think it was cool when you shot down Jorge's statment that the US is a superpower; Sweden isn't, because its tax rate is 50%. They get so rapped up in their econ 101 spun by conservative professors that they can't see the forest for the trees sometimes. BTW as a point of information, the US has a healthy economy back n the 50's and 60's when the top marginal tax rates were 70% or higher. Jorge, could you explain that one?
Let me guess, you're one of those folks who desire a "living" wage. That is ridiculous. The market ultimately decides what people are worth in terms of pay. Since you get can get anyone to clean hotel rooms or pick peaches, thus the market deems them to be low-paying jobs. They require no special skills nor are the potential workers scarce. On the other hand, engineers are paid handsomely because the economy requires their services and they're aren't that many of them (engineering school is very difficult). Why do you hate the rich so much? It just shows where your politics are determined; in envy. You are jealous of them thus you have to criticize them for "oppressing" you when in actuality, if you work at a corporation, they are paying your salary! Rich people, whether you like it or not, make the world go around. Lastly, your bleating about how these people have to be strong to clean hotel rooms and have to live in a hotel is utterly ridiculous. As I often told my Marines, "you don't have to like it, you just have to do it." Success requires hard work, hard work I doubt you would rather engage in. Instead you're one of those folks who want to come and pick my pocket (with the police power of govt.) of the rewards for my nearly 20 years of hard work in both the Corps and the newspaper business. So get your damned socialist hands out of my pocket! And Glynch, your statement on the roaring economy despite marginal tax rates of 70 percent is ridiculous. If you remember, there was an economic slowdown ( a recession as the media likes to call it) which JFK remedied with something I know you hate to mention: TAX CUTS! The only reason we had such a good economy after WWII was the pent-up demand unleashed by years of rationing (no consumer goods such as cars, radios, washers, etc were built during the war) and the rest of the world's manufacturing capability was wrecked by the war. One last thing in my little rant is that I will never understand why so many people in this country want us to fall off the socialist cliff like Europe. If you want to live in a socialist country, why don't just go over there then? Why do you want to turn the world's only true representative republic with both economic and personal liberty into another failed socialist utopia, awash in confiscatory taxes and misery?
I wonder why so many people want to be like Jesus since he was obviously lazy and made terrible decisions with his money.
My opinions do not come from envy, but from love. An equal love for all people that is. I do not, like you, believe that different people have different value. The world will go round, rich people or no rich people. Everything is connected though. There can´t be rich people without poor people and vice versa. There exists a certain amount of "wealth". It could be distributed somewhat equally, and everyone would manage quite allright. Or some could get almost nothing while others have so much you can´t even compare. I don´t blame any specific person. I just think it´s wrong. 1 dies from overweight, and 7 from starvation. Edit: thanks for the support Glynch
apples...oranges private gifts to the poor......government compelled charity not the same thing. at all.
The problem with your ideas is that while they sound nice and egalitarian, they are not rooted in reality. There will always be rich people and poor people, because there is no way that everyone can be "equal." Everyone has differing levels of talent and ability. Not everyone is as brilliant as Einstein or as athletic as Jordan or as funny as Seinfeld. Uniqueness, be it ability or talent is prized because there is an economic reward for nuturing those types of talents. In the totalitarian communist utopia you espouse, where is the motivation for even working hard to make yourself the best? We do things for naked self-interest for economic incentive and without such incentives, everyone would try to become a free rider and get something for nothing. You also function from a false notion that wealth is a zero sum game, that there is only so much to be made and is divied among the classes. Not so. Wealth can expand to encompass more and more sectors of the population, if people work hard and employ logical decision making. And lastly, when the wealth is divided up equally amongst all regardless of their unique talents, we all become equal; equally miserable. My value judgement was based not on people's "worth" but strictly on their economic value. As I said earlier, a peach picker is less economically valuable than, say a doctor. Scarcity makes things valuable, simple free market economics.
There is only much wealth at any given time. Yes more wealth can be created. You can cut more trees, farm more crops, mine more metals. You can develop manufacturing processes so that they require less labor. All theese things are happening. You are right. We are generating more wealth. It is however not "expanding to encompass more sectors of the population". It is getting more and more concentrated. If a man working at a factory gets replaced by a machine. Does he profit from that? No! More "wealth" is created he loses his job and the people who own the factory (and surely already have more than enough to make ends meet) get richer. And while the manufacturing industries need for labor is diminishing there is a growing service industry. Created to satisfy simulated needs of the more fortunate part of the population. We are becoming master and servant. Don´t get me totally wrong. I´m all for economic growth. As long as it´s accomplished without destroying the environment AND as long as distributef somewhat equally among the people.
