There is a way, IMO, to do a 'salary dump', and save 2+ mil: Knicks are overloaded at the 4, desperately looking for a 5. Kurt Thomas and Ward ... Cato and Mooch Knicks do this, IMO. Rox 'cut' Ward, pay his buy out then wink-wink sign him to a three year deal starting @2.5. Net result is Rox have saved @2.5 mil for next season's cap, are overloaded at the 4, (but desperately need a b/u 5) -- but with enough left over to sign JPo. And maybe Willis or Drobniak or Stephania.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/103450p-93590c.html Plan centers on LaFrentz (sounds like Cato/Mooch except to Dallas) Scott Layden's search for a center has led him back to Raef LaFrentz. According to a NBA team official, the Knicks and Mavs are discussing a trade that would send LaFrentz and another player to New York for Kurt Thomas and Charlie Ward. Because of salary-cap rules, the deal cannot take place before Tuesday. Layden has tried to land LaFrentz for the past two years, dating back to when LaFrentz was with Denver. The Knicks president has intensified his pursuit after being shut out from getting any one of several big-name centers who have changed teams this summer. Layden's top choice was free agent Rasho Nesterovic, who left Minnesota to sign with San Antonio. The Knicks could offer only their $4.9 million mid-level exception to available free agents, which is the exact deal former Clippers center Michael Olowokandi signed with the Timberwolves. The Knicks claim they never had serious interest in Olowokandi, a former top overall draft pick. Indiana free agent Brad Miller, another center Layden covets, has agreed to a sign-and-trade with Sacramento, according to reports. The Pacers were to get Keon Clark, an athletic big man who was available to the Knicks. The 7-foot LaFrentz has been in-and-out of Don Nelson's dog house in Dallas. Some NBA scouts feel LaFrentz has been under-utilized in Nelson's system and that LaFrentz could thrive if he has the chance to play with his back to the basket. He's also an underrated shot blocker. Dallas is looking to add toughness to its roster, and although Thomas slipped defensively last season, he is still an above-average low-post defender. Ward, whose contract can be bought out for $2 million, is an experienced backup. He got his first real chance to play when Nelson coached the Knicks during the 1995-96 season.
Do we really benefit if our backup C situation gets worse, we bring back another PF (which was the problem with KT), and instead of this, we re-sign Posey? I don't think MoT and griffin will be happy with playing time, much less KT, MoT, and Griff. I don't know if this team is any good, and I'm not even sure Posey is worth 6M a season. What we need to do is deal with Memphis, because they have aglut, and will be willign to part with Battier. I'd also look very closely at signing Dermarr Johnson, because I can see him doing anythign Posey did.
That would strengthen Dallas if that were to happen. Thomas is a decent dedender, tough and can still score. The West is looking really scary right now. Each of the top 4 or 5 teams are loading up.
IMO, the Kincks would never do this. Thomas is more productive than Cato at the 5, mainly, because he can get away with being a smaller C in the East. Ward, is obviously more efficient than Moochie. Both Thomas and Ward makes less than Cato and Moochie, so what incentive does NY have to do this?? They are giving up the two best players in the deal (comparison wise) who make the least money.
Which part? The part where I said Thomas is a more productive C than Cato (which he is)? The part where I said that Ward is a better PG than Moo (which he is)? The part where I said that Thomas' contract is better than Cato's (which is a fact)? The part where I said that Ward's contract is better than Moo's (which it is)?? Please elaborate.
You can't underestimate the Knicks desperation. I'd throw all our trash at them and see if anything sticks. They might take Mooch. Knicks are ? Slavko Vranes/ Maciej Lampe/TKnight /Doleac K.Thomas/McDyess/Harrington/CSpoon/Sweetney KVH/ Shanderson Houston/ F.Williams Eisley/ Ward That's 15, replace a few as necessary. They need to dump some guys. Thomas and Ward are apparently expendable. Give it a try, anyway. It's not just a straight deal, mr. logical. There are other motivating factors. Now what I'd really like is a three with with Milwaukee where we get M.Redd or D. Mase, and K.Thomas from Knicks, Bucks get a big man, and NY gets some cap relief or guard help. Probably highly unlikely, but still a realm of possibility scenario to play with.
So the Knicks are so desperate that they would take two high contract/low productions players off our hands? Please. I don't think so. Call me Mr. Logical. Teams tend to make logical trades. Not illogical trades like ones that are constantly proposed on here. Also, even if a team wants to alleviate depth issues, my guess (call me stupid) is that they are going to try and get rid of lesser talent (Harrington, Weatherspoon) before they get rid of their best player at that position. Bottomline is, Thomas is their best center option right now, and trading him for Cato is not an upgrade at all. And trading Ward for Moo is DEFINITELY not an upgrade. Cato's value to other teams is WAY overestimated on this BBS lately. Way overestimated.
Ok, just for grins here's one : Bucks get: Kelvin Cato, Mo Taylor (rebounding c, scoring pf) Knicks get : Toni Kukoc, Eric Strickland (cap relief, pg hep) Rockets get : K.Thomas, M. Redd, C Ward (banger pf, shooter, cap relief) goof with that a little bit. you could replace parts here and there but each team gets something they need.
I agree with Codell... as foolish as the Scott Laiden is, the last thing he wants to do right now is to add more overpaid players... don't they already have enough of these? It's not that Les & CD are not trying to get quality talents here, but it's getting damn hard to trade with the current assets that we have...
This makes less sense than the original trade Pasox. 1) Strickland was just signed by Milwaukee and can't be traded. 2) Trade does not help NY with cap relief as Kukoc makes $2-$3 mil more per year than Thomas and Stricklands contract runs one year longer than Ward's. 3) Bucks just traded for Joe Smith plus have Halisp in the wings. No need for Taylor, although Cato would be nice (Bucks wouldnt want his contract though as they are rebuilding). Trade also leaves them without a backup PG. Per their GM, that is one of the reasons they signed Strickland. To have someone that can play good mins behind TJ Ford. 4) Rockets are getting two quality starters and a quality backup and are only giving up two backups with yucky contracts?? Very lopsided trade. Next.
Well, Kukoc does provide cap relief when his contract runs out August 21, 2004. It would help about 8.5 mil. Agreed, Bucks don't need Taylor. forgot Haislip. Darn. Cato still works. Hmm...I'd trade Kukoc and Redd for Cat and Rice. Maybe I should go eat lunch.
Well if somebody offered me to lose Posey and get Pike and Tmo, I would take it. Of couse Dennis would have to stop talking nonsense about messages to Boki.
codell, Don't you ever find it strange that you find, not most, but ALL trade proposals on this BBS proposterous? Does the rest of the world not see what you see?
xiki, please don't take this the wrong way but this was a truly LOL funny post. First of all, LaFrentz conclusively showed last year that he CANNOT play with his back to the basket at all. He's best at playing facing the basket ala Dirk Nowitzki. In fact, the major reason he was acquired was so he could "pull" Shaq-Daddy out from under the basket and give the Mavs a decent chance against the Lakers. Of course, this did NOT work at all so Rafe is now in Nelson's bow wow cottage. The Mav fans are so incensed at his pitiful play and huge contract ($70 Million over 7 years), they are ready to use him to light the bonfire. Kurt Thomas did not want to play in Dallas so he spurned their offer and went to NY. Supposedly he and Nellie do not get along so this trade would not work. Plus, he alone would not be the answer at center/power forward. Ward is a non-factor. You want to talk about bad contracts? I am SO TIRED of hearing the same old line about the Mavs needing get tougher inside. Well they HAD a chance to get rid of Shawn Bradley 2 years ago when his contract was finally up and they didn't. Cuban even bragged about how resigning this stiff for 6 years $36 million was a great deal. He follows that with giving LaFrentz his big contract. Finally, they sign Evan (I'm always hurt) Ershmeyer to replace Calvin (Now I'm hurt too!) Booth to another big contract. The result: $14 million a year on centers who KP (Can't play!). I have no sympathy for the Mavs especially Mark Cuban. It will be his ego and arrogance that will ultimately end up costing Dallas a shot at the title. Oh and by the way, Cuban was on ESPN Radio today where he said that Rafe will NOT be traded cause he loves what he "brings" to the team...whatever that is...THE END.
Ok ... just to prove I can make it work, here : Milwaukee trades: C Dan Gadzuric (3.5 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 0.2 apg in 15.5 minutes) SF Desmond Mason (14.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 34.5 minutes) SF Toni Kukoc (11.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 3.6 apg in 27.1 minutes) Change in team outlook: -29.4 ppg, -14.7 rpg, and -5.8 apg. New York trades: C Michael Doleac (4.4 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.6 apg in 13.9 minutes) C Kurt Thomas (14.0 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 2.0 apg in 31.8 minutes) PG Charlie Ward (7.2 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 4.6 apg in 22.2 minutes) Change in team outlook: -25.6 ppg, -13.5 rpg, and -7.2 apg. Houston trades: C Kelvin Cato (4.5 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 0.3 apg in 17.1 minutes) PG Moochie Norris (4.3 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 2.4 apg in 16.8 minutes) SF Bostjan Nachbar (2.1 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.2 apg in 5.5 minutes) Change in team outlook: -10.9 ppg, -8.6 rpg, and -2.9 apg. Cato - Bucks - center can start east Mooch - Knicks - troll doll marketing pg with clever billboards Boki - Bucks - young player to replace D.Mase they can't sign Kurt - Rox - banger pf. good price Ward - Bucks - cap relief, pg help Doleac - Rox - back up c Mason - Rox - good player to help ym, sf - not byc Kukoc - Knicks - cap relief TRADE ACCEPTED Due to Milwaukee, New York, and Houston being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Milwaukee, New York, and Houston had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You have been assigned Trade ID number 1158264 Talk about it on the Trade Board How to use Trade ID: Go to http://www.realgm.com and enter the trade id into the box provided on the left menu bar, then press go. There are other combinations. But, oh yeah - no one ever completes a trade - I forgot. Could still trade Cat EG Rice combo for SAR or Odom.
Not the rest of the world, but apparently, all the GMs in the league see what I see. Hence, the reason why none of this silly trades have ever come close to being made. Some of you guys propose trades like they are just so simple to make. Trades dont happen often for a reason. Think about it.
