Harden makes an even bigger impact. The Rockets have dealt with so many injuries and have the 2nd seed. The Warriors have the 1st seed but have been relatively healthy all season long. WTF, even Klay Thompson has more player of the week nominations than Curry, how is that for the "engine that makes the team go"? If Curry gets stopped, then he can count on Klay Thompson, Andrew Bogut and Iggy to carry the load, all these guys can be considered star if not superstar players. If you stop Harden, who on the Rox is gonna carry the load with Dwight injured for most of the season? Ariza? JSmith? Gimme a break
Net point is offensive rating vs defensive rating Yes it is broken down into offense and defense, that's the only way to even get a net point result.... on/off is the (off rating[player = on] - off rating [player = off]) - (def rating [player = on] - def rating [player = off]) These stats are mathematical formulas, some simpler than others, and that right there above is the formula of on/off Which is why i said you're using a stat without even understanding what it even is. Let's try plugging in the numbers for Curry (116.2 - 103.1) - (99.4 - 102.5) = 13.1 [offense] - (-3.1) [defense] = 16.2 *ding ding ding* Now Harden (110.3 - 96.1) - (104.1 - 101) = 14.2 [offense] - 3.1 [defense] = 11.1 *ding ding ding* Now nba.com uses slightly different methods for gathering offensive rating and defensive rating than basketball reference, but the formula is the same, because well, that's what the formula is, maths isn't an opinion.
It's funny that plenty of folks (not saying you but in the media) are claiming Klay Thompson is the best "two way" SG in the league yet Curry is MVP. How valuable can Curry be when he supposedly has the best player in the league at his position flanking him and playing big minutes? You can be certain Harden would get no MVP love if Dwight played all season and put up 22/14 regardless of how many games the Rockets won. Swap Kyle Lowry with Curry and the Warriors are nearly as good (maybe as good since they won't need to hide their PG from one on one defensive assignments). Swap Harden with Jimmy Butler and watch the Rockets play .500 basketball...or worse. Stats are nicon't tell the whole story. It's not as if Curry sits in the fourth every night and the rest of the starters stay in. His +/- will be skewed in his favor when all the best players on his team are sitting out late in the game with him. If it's best player on the best team then he is the MVP. If it is a player that makes a decent team a top 5ish team in the league (which I have always believed it is) then it's Harden all day.
this weekend against the Mavericks curry put up 11 pts off 4/12 shooting 4 rebs 3 ast In 27 mins And the warriors STILL won by 13 points , Also curry never has to put the team on his back and carry his team like harden does. He has guys who make plays on their own and he isnt the biggest factor to their success. Harden literally has to get going in order for his team to win he is the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER no matter which way you look at it . Stats or game play
Homerism is rampant here Lol at swapping Lowry with Curry and GSW being the same. Absolutely ridiculous. Curry is a deserving MVP but Harden is just a bit more deserving Let's leave it at that instead of making preposterous statements
Basketball Reference Ortg and Drtg are estimates of a players production per 100 possessions based on his and the teams box score stats. NBA.com Ortg and Drtg are simply points scored and allowed by the team while a player is on (or off) the court. They are equivalent to +/- stats, based on 100 possessions instead of per game. These two stats are significantly different, even though the name is the same.
Ok and so... what? A lot of people say he has and a lot of people say he hasn't, it doesn't make it any less of an insult. Curry is the engine that makes his team go, thats' nice but is Harden not the engine that makes his team go? Two quick points. 1. You're on a flipping HOUSTON ROCKETS forum and you want to talk about the disrespect of the GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS Steph Curry on here? 2. I think the majority of people on here advocating Harden's MVP case actually do appreciate what Steph Curry brings to his team and every game he plays BUT that doesn't mean we have to believe he is more deserving of the MVP award than James Harden. We can appreciate and respect his game and ability without believing he deserves the award more than Harden. That doesn't make it disrespect.
It's not a charity. Harden is more valuable to his team. If he wasn't, I would be all for Curry receiving it. He has had a phenomenal year.
This is me checking to see if this is still a Houston Rockets forum or not. Talking about homerism. It's not homerism to evaluate the worth of each player to their team and the possible drop in the performance of both teams if those players were to be replaced by two other players in the top 10 in their positions. Like you wrote- Curry is a deserving MVP (NO DOUBT) but Harden is just a bit more deserving. Actually that's the test I believe is quite good to use and it's been mentioned on here in earlier pages. You absolutely distorted what Dave_78 wrote. He never said if you swap Lowry for Curry that the Warriors will be as good. He wrote, if you swap the two players, the Warriors will be almost as good. (He added in "maybe as good" because of the defensive side of the ball). Either way that doesn't discount the fact that the Warriors wouldn't be significantly worse if you swapped out Curry for another top 10 point guard in the league. The Rockets on the other hand would be significantly worse if you swapped out Harden for Butler, DeRozan or another top 10 shooting guard in the league. If you can't see or understand that then... This is pointless.
If it pleases you then replace "fact" with "notion" or "supposition" or whichever word best suits the belief in that w/o the availability of facts to prove it. Better?
One thing I do find interesting is Curry only has 1 POTM award and 2 POTW awards. Klay Thompson has more POTW awards than Curry does. I'm not sure that has ever happened before, where an MVP does not have the most POTW/POTM award on his own team.
look up the stat VORP (value over replacement player). it's basically how much of an impact replacing a player with an average player would affect his team. Harden is by far #1 in this metric which is basically the same as WAR in baseball.... Harden is also #1 in the value added (VA) and estimated wins added (EWA) statistics as well by a significant margin. Even just looking at the bare statistics, Harden has outplayed Curry... he is on pace to be in extremely exclusive company of players who have had seasons on par with him (only Jordan Bird and LeBron)
I think this is a good point and hope it gets brought to light in the voters minds. Player of the Week Awards Houston - (3) - Harden G. State - (5) - 2 Curry / 3 Thompson Player of the Month Awards Houston - (2) - Harden G. State - (1) - Curry Though these types of awards are subjective to a large degree and I don't really take stock in them, the media does and when you have a race this tight, you need every argument you can to make the best decision. I still say edge goes to Harden for leading an injury riddled team to the 2nd best team in the west... So far. 5 games left to figure it out.
A bit of both. I'm looking at Curry's VORP compared to Harden's and using Lowry and a similarly ranked SG(as Harden's replacement) it seems the greater difference would be in replacing Harden. (I think the point guard quality in the league is way better than that of the quality of SG's currently in the league so that will play a factor in that). W/r to the feeling aspect- The Warriors having Steve Kerr on the sidelines(as opposed to McHale) and Klay Thompson(who is regarded by most as one of the 2 best SG's in the league along w/Harden) as well as a very healthy team this season(compared to the Rockets), leads me to believe that replacing Curry with Lowry wouldn't be that detrimental to this Warriors team this season as it would be if the Rockets replaced Harden with Monta Ellis/Danny Green/Victor Oladipo/Demar DeRozan. (All similarly ranked in terms of SG's as Lowry is in terms of PG's). If we go with whomever is 2nd then it would be Chris Paul for Curry and Jimmy Butler for Harden. Greater dropoff in value would still be for the Rockets and Harden's replacement.
