Makes you wonder... __________________________ JULY 17, 2003 Media Underplays U.S. Death Toll in Iraq Soldiers Dead Since May Is 3 Times Official Count By Greg Mitchell NEW YORK -- News Analysis Any way you look at it, the news is bad enough. According to Thursday's press and television reports, 33 U.S. soldiers have now died in combat since President Bush declared an end to the major fighting in the war on May 2. This, of course, is a tragedy for the men killed and their families, and a problem for the White House. But actually the numbers are much worse -- and rarely reported by the media. According to official military records, the number of U.S. soldiers who have died in Iraq since May 2 is actually 85. This includes a staggering number of non-combat deaths. Even if killed in a non-hostile action, these soldiers are no less dead, their families no less aggrieved. And it's safe to say that nearly all of these people would still be alive if they were still back in the States. Nevertheless, the media continues to report the much lower figure of 33 as if those are the only deaths that count. A Web site called Iraq Coalition Casualty Count (http://lunaville.org/warcasualties/Summary.aspx) is tracking the deaths, by whatever cause, of U.S. military personnel in Iraq, based on official Pentagon and CENTCOM press releases and Army Times and CNN casualty trackers. Their current count is 85 since May 2. Looking at the entire war, there was much fanfare Thursday over the fact that the latest U.S. combat death this week pushed the official total to 148 -- finally topping the 147 figure for Gulf War 1. However, according to the Iraq Coalition Casualty Count, the total number of all U.S. deaths, combat and otherwise, in Iraq is actually 224. This Web site not only counts deaths, it describes each one in whatever detail (often sketchy) the military provides, along with the name and age and home town of each fatality. An analysis of the 85 deaths by E&P reveals that nearly as many U.S. military personnel have died in vehicle accidents (17) as from gunshot wounds (19). Ten have died after grenade attacks and seven from accidental explosions, another seven in helicopter crashes. Six were killed by what is described as "non-hostile" gunshots, and three have drowned. The vast majority of those killed -- at least 70% -- were age 18 to 30 but several soldiers in their 40s or 50s have also perished. Pentagon officials also disclosed that there have been about five deaths among troops assigned to the Iraq mission that commanders say might have been suicides. As inquiries continue, one official said the susupected suicides were not clustered in any single time period that might indicate a related cause. The most recent non-combat death was Cory Ryan Geurin, age 18, a Marine lance corporal from Santee, Calif. "He was standing post on a palace roof in Babylon when he fell approximately 60 feet," the site said. On July 13, Jaror C. Puello-Coronado, 36, an Army sergeant, died while "manning a traffic point when the operator of a dump truck lost control of the vehicle." Another soldier, still officially listed as "Unknown," died on July 13 "from a non-hostile gunshot incident," according to the site. Before that, on July 9, another Marine Lance Corporal, age 20, died in Kuwait "in a vehicle accident." Many other deaths are only vaguely described as the "result of non-combat injuries." One recent death occurred in a mine-clearing accident. Others "drowned" or "died of natural causes," and still others lost their lives in a "vehicle accident."
33 are probably 'official warfare related' death where as the others are 'unfortunate accidents having nothing to *really* do with the war' Rocket River
People die in car crashes in America as well. The non-combat deaths over there are no more likely than over here, probably less so.
The only thing this thread makes me wonder about is whether or not rimrocker is rooting for the insurgent Iraqi guerrillas or for American troops. Judging by the mud he slings daily at our military, the answer is becoming pretty clear. Sickening. When was the last time rimrocker had something positive to say about the men and women who serve? I honestly couldn't tell you.
Wrong. Looking at 2000 CDC mortality data and using current Census data for a poulation number, there is one accident-related death for every 3000 people. Given the number of non-combat deaths and the number of troops, there is 1 death for every 1520 soldiers. Include the battle deaths and it works out to about 1 for every 621. (The CDC numbers are derived for a year, and we're only a few months into this Iraq thing.) In the CDC numbers, about 4% of all deaths are via accident. In Iraq, it's about 45%.
This approach of a false appeal to patriotism is becoming a bit old George. One positive thing I will say about our men and women who serve is that they seem to have a much firmer grasp of reality than you do. The whole operation was built on lies and things are going from bad to worse and yet you sit there and fiddle because you are so blinded by ideology that you can't fathom your heroes being fallible. Go immerse yourself in some more Rand and leave the serious discussions about how we got into this mess and how we can get out without losing our shirts to those who care about what happens to the country and the world.
We define patriotism much differently then. I define it as rooting for Americans when they are at war. You define it as rooting for failure. You tell me who has a false approach.
I don't see rimrocker "rooting" for anything but the truth. He appears to care about the lives of our troops much more than people who've put them in such a precarious, understaffed and underguided predicament. It's tragic. As for serving the nation, I appreciate the work of a firefighter a great deal.
This is the first table I could find that breaks down cause of death by age. For the age group most represented in Iraq, motor vehicle accident is the #1 cause of death. I don't know how many American's fall within the 18-24 age group, so I can't speak to mortality rates. There would have to be more than 21,454,308 Americans in that age group for the mortality rate in Iraq to be higher than the national average. This does not take into account the fact that we have not been in Iraq for a year though, as you mentioned.
"Rooting for failure"... Is that a cover all statement including such activities as: * Wanting to find out if we are fighting, dying, and killing, for the right reasons? * Wanting to find out if we are fighting, dying and killing, for the reasons we agreed to? * Wanting to assess the situation not from the point of view of painting us as knights in shining armor, but as it is? * Wanting accountability from our leadership, military and political? * Not confusing an elephant stepping on an ant as a great military victory which somehow makes everything surrounding it ok? * Asking questions like " Why do thse dense Iraqis keep thrwoing bullets at us when we know, because we were told, that they really truly want to be throwing flowers?" * Wanting to know the numbers so we can arrive at conclusions, not the other way around. I can see, on this point, hiwver, that getting the stance before the data is currently en vogue.
George, You used to be interesting, like when you proposed replacing Social Security with investments in Appalachian mining concerns, but now that you're talking about a topic where you can get little guidance from Ayn or Milton, you're just boring.
Please don't forget his excellent relationship advice! Oski, unless I'm mistaken, rimrocker fights forrest fires for this nation, protecting the nation's resources, parks, and in some cases homes, I'd imagine.
I'm not that brave... I have a family and all. I'm more into plans and support. Doing the real work is a young person's game and you need young knees and a back unravaged by age and too many pickup games.
Haven't you noticed that rooting for the truth lately has can viewed by some as unpatriotic. The patriotic thing would be to go along with the lies as long as they are American ones. (Before people accuse me of using a broad stroke to paint the whole pro war crowd I'm not. This is a response only relating directly to TJ's post, and not the pro-war crowd in general. Hopefully by including this Parenthises explanation needless future posts about me jumping into the rhetoric can be avoided.)
