First of all you are grasping at straws with your Alonzo Morning comment. It does not apply. Tell me why the Rockets would pick up his salary? I can give you reasons why it would be in the best interest for the Rockets to waive Hakeem. And please just show me one post where I even implied that Rudy or Les are bad guys. Come on smart guy or can't you find that post! I don't think they have handled the Hakeem situation correctly but I am gladd to have Les, CD and Rudy. I think they make up one of the best management trios in the league. Maybe it is you that needs to get a grasp of the facts before you post. ------------------
First of all you are grasping at straws with your Alonzo Morning comment. It does not apply. Tell me why the Rockets would pick up his salary?...... Becaue Dream would belong to the Heat and yet be paid by the Rockets (less the prorated vets minimum that Miami would pick up). The next logical step, if the Rockets were going to be that benevolent, would be to pay Zo's salary also as he would also belong to the Heat and not the Rockets. Very logical idea. Mango ------------------ Lets get the Mo Go working! Test Your NBA Trade Ideas 1. Put new topics in the proper forum. Things happening in the rest of the NBA 2. Use clear wording for new threads. 3. No duplicate threads 4. Conduct yourself as an adult. The Serious Police are watching. Donate Blood or be assimilated! [This message has been edited by Mango (edited January 20, 2001).]
Unless you're Steve Francis, and Vancouver owns your rights, right verse? ------------------ "I have to say, I don't understand why these Rockets' fans are booing Scottie." -Calvin Murphy Only on the Clutch BBS will you see Hakeem Olajuwon compared to Scottie Pippen.
I apologise if you didn't grasp that my comments were made sarcastically. These comments were not intended to be interpreted literally, but rather were inteneded to lampoon and caricture your position, which I considered to be spoken from a position which was unsympathetic to the financial realities. I will try to be less subtle next time. You, however, managed to evade the central point: It is very easy for you to say 'we need to let him go if that is what [Hakeem] wants' when 'we' aren't paying his salary while he plays for someone else, but rather Les Alexander is via the Rockets. In other words, it is easy to trumpet the virtues of Hakeem at all costs when you don't actualy have to pay those costs. I had hoped to spur you into contemplating the vast financial expanse that is 16 million dollars. Clearly I was not successful. ------------------
Your right Les is paying his salary not me. But what is Les getting for his salary? If they leave Dream on the IR then they get nothing but inner turmoil for the remainder of the year. If they take Dream off of IR and use him like they did earlier in the year then we get 10 points and 6 boards a game and r****ds the growing process of Jason Collier and Cato (if he ever gets healthy) while continuing to create turmoil with in the team. In either scenario Less either gets nothing or very little return on his investment. In fact the distraction that the Hakeem situation could have on the team could negatively impact what the growing process that is so important to this young team. If the Rockets trade (which is my preference) Hakeem or release him they will loose little or nothing on their investment since they are already getting little or nothing. In the process they put the distraction behind them allowing the young players to continue to mature together and allowing Rudy T. to concentrate on basketball and not the ego of the greatest basketball player to ever wear a Rockets uniform. By trading Hakeem, both the Rockets and Hakeem, benefits. By keeping him the Rockets and Hakeem, both loose. There did I explain it a little better for you. To Mango, “Because Dream would belong to the Heat and yet be paid by the Rockets (less the prorated vets minimum that Miami would pick up). The next logical step, if the Rockets were going to be that benevolent, would be to pay Zo's salary also as he would also belong to the Heat and not the Rockets. Very logical idea. - Mango.” Short of trading Hakeem, Houston is stuck with his contract and are already getting nothing. So by releasing him the Rockets are loosing nothing. With Hakeem, we have won two championships, three western conference titles and been to the playoffs on a yearly basis. You suggest that by picking up Zo’s , contract, it would be no different than releasing Dream and having Miami pick him up after he clears waivers. Les, would be paying someone a substantial amount of money that has never worn a Houston uniform or contributed to the Rockets in any way. Well maybe to you the two are the same, but I can see a difference. ------------------ [This message has been edited by crash5179 (edited January 20, 2001).]
Crash5179, Why didn't Dream ask out last summer? Couldn't he see that the Rockets offense had evolved in a different direction with the lengthy time that Dream and Charles had spent on IR last season? The Rockets could have perhaps gotten something more than the absolute zero that they would get if they waived him next week. The reason that these debates tend to be so heated is because the differences in perspective that you have noted. The Pro-Dream members are looking at this in a sentimental way while the others view this as a business and question the strategic decisions that are at hand for the Rockets currently and the missed chances for trading Dream in the past. Mango ------------------ We neeed more threads about Dream! Test Your NBA Trade Ideas 1. Put new topics in the proper forum. Things happening in the rest of the NBA 2. Use clear wording for new threads. 3. No duplicate threads 4. Conduct yourself as an adult. The Serious Police are watching. Donate Blood or be assimilated! [This message has been edited by Mango (edited January 20, 2001).]
Perhaps we should have traded Dream last year to Toronto. Did CD approach Dream with it? I don't know. Maybe Dream was all for it back then but decided he would stay and help the team with his experience. Also I don't think that he thought that he would be physically able to play beyond this year if he could even finish this one. In any event I doubt he ever thought his role on the team would be this deminished. I truely beleive that it is best for the Rockets to sever ties with Hakeem until after he retires. Regardless of who is to blame for the current situation his pressence on the team has obviously become a distraction to the team and specifically Rudy T. By trading or waiving I think it gives the team the chance to move on and continue the growing proccess. Remember how much the team grew together when Barkley was out of the picture? ------------------ [This message has been edited by crash5179 (edited January 20, 2001).]
Crah5179, If Dream could come forward and show that he is just not about money in this deal, it would help his PR tremendously.. He should come forward and donate the remainder of his salary this season, provided the Rockets agree to waive him. Worthy causes? Two quick ones off the top of my head: 1. Organizations that help the needy in the Houston area. 2. I think the pension plan for the NBA players from the 50's and 60's is underfunded and his donation would help immensely. That would put the PR ball back in the Rockets court and show that helping a strong playoff contender is more important than money as Dream seems to imply when he suggests that he is healthy and has some game left. Charles took a low ball salary when the Rockets signed Pippen, so there is precedent for Dream to make a gesture that hits him in the wallet as it hit Charles. Will Dream make a bold PR play similar as to what I suggested above? I doubt it. Mango ps I do enjoy this civilized discourse. ------------------ <B>We neeed more threads about Dream!</B> Test Your NBA Trade Ideas 1. Put new topics in the proper forum. Things happening in the rest of the NBA 2. Use clear wording for new threads. 3. No duplicate threads 4. Conduct yourself as an adult. The Serious Police are watching. Donate Blood or be assimilated!
I thought Hakeem already made signifigant contributions to needy organizations around town. Although I am sure nothing that would compare to 8 mil. ------------------
Crash5179, As I pointed out in an earlier post, the Pro-Dream members are viewing this issue on sentimental terms while the rest look at it as a business. To get me on the sentimental side, Dream will have to show that he is not in it for the money and that getting a strong shot at another ring is above all else, including money. Mango ------------------ We neeed more threads about Dream! Test Your NBA Trade Ideas 1. Put new topics in the proper forum. Things happening in the rest of the NBA 2. Use clear wording for new threads. 3. No duplicate threads 4. Conduct yourself as an adult. The Serious Police are watching. Donate Blood or be assimilated! [This message has been edited by Mango (edited January 21, 2001).]
I like mango's proposal. I would feel a little better about waiving Dream if he's willing to pay back some of his salary that he'd get if he was waived. I just don't think he can get both. He can either take his money and stay with the rockets or get traded, or he can give up the cash and then be waived. [This message has been edited by Band Geek Mobster (edited January 21, 2001).]
Maybe that's the answer. When Dream meets with Les to ask that he be waived, Les should tell him that he'll do it, only if Dream would forfeit his salary this year & live off of whatever Miami offers him. I'd bet you a buck that Dream backs away from that offer real fast. Now, if all this perceived whining about a trade or being waived is just a carefully orchestrated plan for the mysterious "Hand Shake Deal", then I tip my hat to you Dream for being so convincing. If not, then see my previous post in this thread. ------------------
I know how much dream has done for this organization,but the rockets cant just let him go for nothing.Some reasons: 1.They would show players run the league now so in the future,others could use this example in their favor and try to force what they want. 2.We are still very much in the playoff hunt and need badly some inside presence.You just cant get deep in the west without interior defense. 3.We would be paying him 8 mill for playing in an other city,that is just an idiotic business decision. Just a thought:Say we release dream and since he said he wants to play for miami,phoenix and LA,he signs with the lakers.L.A. ends with the top seed and we make a strong push and finish eighth.This would just look stupid in front of everyone,paying a player to play for the other team and eliminating us from the playoffs.I dont think you would be very happy and sentimental then.Rockets first,dream second ------------------ La vida es una experiencia unica,aburrirse es un pecado.
If Hakeem is waived, then there must be the stipulation that he can sign only with Miami. I think it would be fair of Les to say, "You want to walk, leave your salary at the door." But I care more about the "Miami provision" than the $$$. If Hakeem went to LA, we'd be screwed. LA already has more than enough luck going its way (internal dissension aside). Isn't there a way to make a trade (I know everyone else has given up on this, so sorry to mention it now, this is just hypothesis for the most part) to make a trade using Dream, then the other team can waive him? With the same stipulations as mentioned above? (Of course, I'm thinking Vancouver and Chicago again, Chicago hopefully serious about landing Big Country; next year's caproom is great, but will land us which player, if anyone?) Hypothetically, can he be traded and waived by a team trying to unload salaries? The NBA office might be amenable to such maneuvers in order to help a struggling franchise (Vancouver). Again, hypothetical wishful thinking. No flaming please. ------------------
