I will say it once and I will say it again. How is punishing one guy going to deter would-be copycats? I hate to turn the favorite liberal argument against the death penalty on you (it's not a deterent) but it's true. And I simply don't believe that people are out everyday killing gay people because they're gay. I also don't like how this law can be applied to people spraying some graffitti or wrecking a synagogue, crimes that can already be punished under existing statutes without adding this silly notion of "hate," because no crime is a crime of love. I just don't think that because someone is killed by skinheads because they're Jewish and I am killed by a multi-racial gang that the skinheads get punished more severely because they're part of a so-called "hate" group. Why does their victim deserve more societal retribution for his murder than mine does?
I moved to Vermont from Houston recently. * There are no gun control laws in Vermont. * Vermont had a budget SURPLUS last year. * All children have access to free health care. * Vermont is the cleanest state in the country. * Vermont allows civil unions. These are issues that are espoused by people all over the political spectrum -- libertarian, liberal, conservative, moderate, etc. And Howard Dean played a role in making Vermont what it is today: fiercely independent, politically progressive and fiscally conservative. In my eyes, that's the real trifecta.
and my God, they have good maple syrup! remember when the media in 1991/2 tried to convince us that Arkansas was a little slice of paradise!!?? contrast that to the punch in the nose that Texas got when Bush ran. that's funny stuff.
The one thing that is vastly different this time from the Clinton vs. Bush The Elder election is the pervasive fear of terrorism that has gripped this nation since 911. I heard Dick Morris on the radio this morning talking about how Clinton was one of the few candidates for President that could run almost purley on domestic issues. At that time the Soviet Union was vanquised so there was little or no threat to the United States militarily. We hadn't yet heard of idealogical terrorism and we all thought that the future of world politics was now an economic question. If there were no "homeland security" issues now I believe Bush would be imminently beatable. His harping on Liberal= Bad Conservative =Good will be laughable when his Reaganesque theory of providing for the greater good by giving more money to business is exposed as a failure. Bammaslammer, Sometimes I think you forget you already live in a Socialist Republic. Think not? Then what can you say about the graduated income tax system, social security, public education, Medicare and Medicade, Head Start, County Health Care for the Indigent, The FDIC, FannieMay and Freddie Mac, FEMA, the FDA, the CDC, the FCC, the........... I guess you have to draw a line somewhere , but sick children probably isn't the right spot. How about tax have status for essentially American business. And one quick note on affermative action; This nation has systematically discriminated against one race of people for 200 years. Our nation owes a debt to the black race. I don't believewe can pay reparations to this generation because it would be unworkable for a number of reasons. But providing a helping hand so they can reach a general equality through educational opportunities is the least we can do. Our nation
I was 10 back in 92, so I don't remember any of this slice of paradise Arkansas stuff. I do remember red neck jokes aplenty though. Somebody fill me in on the media trying to convince people that Arkansas was great?
hey..i fell for it hook, line and sinker. i was 18 at the time..i voted for clinton. i was SHOCKED to find out from my new acquaintance at college (who ultimately became my wife) that arkansas was not the keen place I thought it to be. i wish i could remember specifics...not sure if those articles would be posted on the net either, from that far back.
thanks Batman. they're not perfect matches. I just find it funny when Republicans overconfidently discount the current Democratic contenders the same way they did 12 years ago. Dean and Graham were on the Tavis Smiley show on NPR today (seperately not together). Both were pretty good at attacking W. Dean/Graham might make an interesting ticket. Listen to their interview here: http://discover.npr.org/rundowns/segment.jhtml?wfId=1337441 by clicking on this icon
That's why I fight the fight I do, to roll all that socialist foolishness back. We have lost our way and our ideals of self-reliance and hard work. Instead we always look for a helping hand, an excuse. I've always observed in my life when I refused to make a backup plan, I never failed at anything I set to do. Flying without a net is freedom indeed. I owe no debt to the black race. My father's ancestors fought for the Union, fleeing to Indiana to join the fight to end slavery. We paid our debt, in blood. My mother's family can not be faulted, as my mother came to this country with her parents in the mid-sixties from Japan. Why should I have to suffer through race preferences because I'm not a certain color? And what does that say to black youths? You're not good enough to get into college, you need a quota. You're not good enough to get that job, you need a quota. It is sickening. Why can't we judge simply on merit? Wronging other candidates in non-prefered ethnic groups does not make up for the wrongs of slavery, Jim Crow and lynchings. Beating me and my children and my children's children up over what happened to the black race many years ago won't solve a thing. It simply perpetuates bitterness and division, rather than unity. As my father always says, "Two wrongs don't make a right."
Hate crimes are more than just about the victim. it's about the group that victim belongs to. if that person was targeted for being x, then anyone else who is x is also a potential target. a hate crime is basically an implied threat to an entire group, one that is probably a minority group in that society already. You don't see the difference between some thug spray-painting their name on a synagouge as opposed to a swastika? you think hate is silly but you said you were a victim of it as a child. Do you think those kids were justified to call you what they did? Do you want your own kids to go through that same experience? If people (especially young people) are taught that there are consequences for acting on their hatred then that should stop some people from doing so. Not all of them but enough of them to make a difference.
This smacks exactly at the point I've been making about this issue. With these hate crime laws, we cease to become an individual murder victim. It's all about whatever little ethnic group we consider ourselves a member of that was wronged. It degrades the individuality of a crime into a offense against a protected group, which is silly. The only motives that should weigh on a judge sentencing an offender is premeditation and the heinous nature of the crime. If the judge wants to enforce further penalities due to the crime's brutality or effect (like in these so-called hate crimes), he/she can already do that now under most statutes in most states. I just dislike the idea of mandatory extra punishment because someone acted on their beliefs and thoughts.
we're just gonna have to agree to disagree bama. Anyways, for those of you interested in the Democratic contenders and their views on Gay & Lesbian issues, watch this streaming webcast of a forum that was held today sponsored by HRC and moderated by ABC's Sam Donaldson. U Need Real Player to watch this webcast. it's 1 hour and 34 minutes long. Also here are two Adobe PDF files of a survey given to the 9 Democratic candidates and their responses: Candidate Summary of Survey (PDF) Individual Candidate Respones (PDF)
Yeah, we can't all think alike. What fun would the world be now if that was true? Good points on both sides and I will say it was an intellectually enlightening discussion.
