But it's not talent or analytics. It's talent AND analytics. Morey knows the importance of talent. That's why he is always chasing those "elite" players. No team will ever win a championship on analytics alone, and Morey knows this. All championship teams have talent, and all championship teams use analytics. I don't think analytics is anything new. Teams have always used analytics in some way. Teams have used analytics long before it was called analytics. Call it strategy, call it making smart on court decisions, call it being efficient. Whatever you call it, teams are more focused on than ever before.
I think Barkley is a pretty perceptive guy when it comes to basketball. He may not know much about analytics, but I doubt you know much either. There is no need for ad hominem attacks.
Well. Talented shows talent on the court in math, or stats. I agree when people against analytics talk about analytics vs chemistry. But talent is quantifiable in one way or another.
Even his buddy Jordan went straight to Cho to try to incorporate more analytics when he saw the "old school" methods were failing. Analytics is in the front office of every team in every sport, if Charles doesn't realize that he's just going to fall further and further behind.
LOL at Chuck making a fool out of himself on live TV He really thinks he's a talented entertainer, but really everybody just watches him to laugh at him, like your crazy old uncle
There is no dillema between talent and analtyics. Analytics is a tool not a subtitution of talent. It is a tool to help along with tape and the eye test to evaluate talent (though I still insist the draft involves still a **** ton of luck) and put it in the best situation to succeed. It is a tool used not only by the FO but also by the coaching staff. It helps evalute the players put all the correct talented pieces together in a way they will fit with each other and the system and put the whole system in place with the personel.
That's not the point of analytics. It isn't something you use "against" talent. You use it to identify and maximize talent.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12308938/charles-barkley-fires-back-daryl-morey-houston-rockets-stats-idiot Charles Barkley took a social-media shot from Daryl Morey and returned fire with a vengeance Tuesday night, calling the Houston Rockets general manager "one of those idiots who believes in analytics." The Naismith Hall of Famer and TNT analyst then disavowed the widespread use of the practice in sports, saying its proponents were "a bunch of guys who have never played the game, and they never got the girls in high school." "First of all I've always believed analytics was crap," Barkley said on TNT's postgame coverage of the Rockets' 127-118 win over the Phoenix Suns. "You know I never mention the Rockets as legitimate contenders 'cause they're not. And listen, I wouldn't know Daryl Morey if he walked into this room right now." Barkley made his case after saying the Rockets -- 36-16 and third in the West -- were poor on defense among playoff-contending teams despite being among the top statistical teams in the NBA defensively. "Just because you've got good stats doesn't mean you're a good team defensively," Barkley said. "They're not a good defensive team. They gave up 118 points. No good team gives up 118 points." Barkley's comments were in response to a tweet Morey posted during the Rockets' win. Barkley offered up the previous championship models of the Los Angeles Lakers, Chicago Bulls -- with the pairings of Kobe Bryant-Shaquille O'Neal and Michael Jordan-Scottie Pippen -- and the current core of the San Antonio Spurs, with Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili and Kawhi Leonard, as evidence that using statistics was not a sound basis for building a winning NBA team. "They say that same crap in baseball, and they put these little lightweight teams together and they never win," Barkley said. "They're always competitive to a certain degree and they don't win. It's the same thing in the NBA." The Rockets' statistics are a mixed bag. They stand seventh in the NBA in points per game with 103.3 and 15th in points per game allowed at 99.6. Among their ESPN.com Hollinger Stats rankings, they are third in pace factor, 12th in offensive efficiency and seventh in defensive efficiency. "The Rockets sucked for a long time, so they went out and paid James Harden a lot of money; they got better," Barkley said on the TNT postgame broadcast. "Then they went out and got Dwight Howard; they got better. ... "The NBA is about talent," Barkley continued. "All these guys who run these organizations who talk about analytics, they have one thing in common -- they're a bunch of guys who have never played the game, and they never got the girls in high school, and they just want to get in the game." An NBA coach, speaking to ESPN.com senior writer Ramona Shelburne, said there was value in the use of analytics but that it was limited. "To say they've revolutionized everything about coaching or basketball is just wrong," the coach said. The NBA coach said he used analytics but that a lot of the statistics and formulas have been available for 10 years. "You just had to look it up yourself on a computer," the coach said. "These guys are bright, ambitious and a lot of them have carved out niches for themselves where they take credit for everything," the coach added. "You're taking people with a background in analytics. But they're out evaluating players and making decisions." So everybody wants to call Barkley BS because he spoke out about the Analytics... Well I happen to think he's right... You can not but a team together in the NBA based purely upon stats and expect to win a championship... Analytics and stats are useful to a certain point and that's it.. I see a lot of post with you guys pushing out info on this stat and that stat on players and that info alone will not win a championship. If I take a Harden and put him with SA will he average the same amount of points that he does now? NO... Now did Barkley take some of the stuff he said personal... Yeah he did... But on the other hand Barkley stated a lot of what has been stated on the GARM... 1) Morey treats players as assets and not as players... 2) The Rockets need a mid-range game... 3) We can not be competitive with Morey changing players every 6 months.. 4) Morey is only putting a competitive on the floor to get the fans money 5) on and on.... Baseball and Basketball are 2 totally different sports and the fact is Billy did what he did because his budget was cut to ZERO.. So he improvised and he still hasn't won a championship.. He puts a competitive team to put fans in the seats and that's about it. (HMMM WHERE HAVE WE HEARD THIS STATEMENT BEFORE). You can't put a basketball team together that way and expect to win a championship.. It want work... T_Man
Heres the thing, Barkley's a fool who gets paid to be a fool on national TV. People for some reason find humor in somebody else's ignorance. We're talking about a man who said Yao Ming would never score more than 20 points before seeing him play. He's dumb and he knows he's dumb. I remember him saying we would never beat the Suns with Chucky Brown guarding him (or something along the lines of that), and we went on the beat the Suns anyway. He's been a troll. On the other hand, he has a small point. Analytics is slightly overrated. It's perfectly fine to use it, but you can't base your WHOLE strategy around it. Too much of it may cause you to miss out on quality players. Daryl Morey gets a little too much credit for being genius at analytics. But Charles is a paid idiot and Morey's a little too cocky without having done anything in the playoffs yet. BOTH are stubborn
The irony is the Rockets have been a lot crappier recently on the defensive side. Still, "one of the worst defensive teams in the league" is an obvious exaggeration.
Even Kenny is wrong in this video in my opinion. He said that in his first 5 seasons he shot 82 3 pointers (I presume not at an efficient rate) thus analytics would suggest he is not a good 3 point shooter. Then he said that when he was in houston he could shoot 3 pointers well because of the presence of Hakeem. Well, 82 samples are definitely not enough to form a statistical conclusion. Analytics require large sample sizes to be accurate, that is the basis of all analysis. In my opinion, people who disregard analytics are people who don't understand them or don't understand how to use them
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Why was this a poor decision again? What are the consequences? Even if the Rockets never get out of the first round again with Morey, it doesn't show that Barkley is correct and analytics doesn't matter. The whole issue started with Barkley's obviously inaccurate statement about the Rockets being one of the worst defensive teams in the league. That's what should be mocked -- not Daryl.
I wouldn't say Chuck retaliated. He is always talking mess about houston. Morey just stuck up for Houston.
wait a sec..isn't that Ramona that crazy lady from the Lakers?or am I wrong? Because if she is that "NBA coach" is 100% Byron Scott who is against analytics and frankly sucks. Might as well have interviewed Marc Jackson.
However, 5 seasons is a good number of GAMES, which is where stats could draw the conclusion that he was not a good 3 point shooter. What if I told you that Josh Smith, a historically bad 3 point shooter based on his sample size thus far, would go on to become a great 3 point shooter on THIS team, because of all the wide-open looks he's getting? Same thing... so while Kenny didn't really articulate it well, his point was accurate that players certainly have the ability to change/evolve and shouldn't be pigeon-holed as a certain type of player simply because of what stats say. Then again, Morey's counter to that would likely be that analytics go beyond the simple stat sheet, and they would have been able to know that Kenny was actually a decent 3 point shooter despite his paltry numbers in his first 5 seasons.
