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Chron: Until Justice O'Connor Changes Her Mind Again

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by GladiatoRowdy, Jul 6, 2003.

  1. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/editorial/outlook/1979371

    Until Justice O'Connor changes her mind again
    By CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER

    I once worked in government. On my first day, I raised my right hand and swore to uphold the Constitution. I thought I knew what that meant.

    Recently we have gone to war in Afghanistan, Iraq and a few other places, at least in part to advance democracy and promote our kind of constitutionalism. A foreigner might then ask: What exactly is your Constitution?

    Now we know the answer. The Constitution is whatever Sandra Day O'Connor says it is. On any given Monday.

    That modifier is crucial, because she does change her mind, and when she does, so does the Constitution. Seventeen years ago, she ruled anti-sodomy laws constitutional. Now she thinks otherwise.

    Conservatives are distressed and liberals ecstatic about the outcome of recent decisions of this allegedly conservative court. In a few short years, it has enshrined in stone: (1) abortion on demand, (2) racial preferences, and (3) gay rights -- the liberal trifecta, just about their entire social agenda, save shutting down the Fox News Channel.

    My concern about the court is less the outcome of these cases than the court's arbitrariness and imperiousness. In 1992, I voted (in a Maryland referendum) to maintain legalized abortion, and yet I believe that Roe vs. Wade was an appalling act of judicial usurpation that deserves repeal. And, had I been a Texas legislator, I, like Justice Clarence Thomas, would have voted to repeal the sodomy law, but it was not the court's place to do the people's work when it struck down all such laws under an infinitely expansive notion of "privacy."

    Whenever one argues for this kind of judicial minimalism, however, the other side immediately unfurls the bloody flag of segregation. For the last half-century proponents of judicial activism have borrowed the prestige the court gained by being activist on civil rights and used it to justify judicial legislation in every other field of endeavor. On a recent edition of Inside Washington, for example, my friend and fellow panelist Colby King of The Washington Post characterized my opposition to the sodomy decision as "right out of the Southern Manifesto."

    It was a bit of a stretch (delivered with a bit of a smile). Invoking segregation is a clever tactic and a staple of judicial activism, but it fails because segregation was unique. The argument against judicial activism is that it impedes, overrides and in effect destroys normal democratic practice. But in the segregated South there was no normal democratic practice. Blacks were disenfranchised. They could not undo the injustice by legislative means because they had been deprived of those very means. It was a Catch-22. That's why the court had to intervene. That's why the court was right to intervene. It did not mint new rights; it extended to African-Americans the normal rights of democratic participation.

    The proof of this uniqueness of civil rights is the fact that once these disabilities were removed and blacks could fully participate democratically, even such arch-segregationists as Strom Thurmond magically discovered -- without any further court prompting -- the brotherhood of man and the constituent needs of African-Americans.

    This restoration of fundamental democratic practice simply does not apply to the cases in question today: abortion, affirmative action and gay rights. No one here is barred from participating in the political process. No one is systematically harassed or threatened. No one suffers cross burnings, beatings or worse for agitating on behalf of this or that cause.

    At one level, judicial activism is repugnant for reasons of simple democratic self-respect. Who do these robed eminencies think they are, reading into "penumbras, formed by emanations" of the Constitution to create new norms and strike down others with the arbitrariness of Iran's Council of Guardians? This is a democracy, after all.

    An even more important reason, however, is social peace. When you short-circuit the democratic process, you deprive a decision of legitimacy and prevent the stable social settlement of an issue. The genius of a pluralistic Madisonian democracy is that it allows the clash of factions in the legislature, working out messy settlements that, amended over time, allow for compromise and give even the losers a sense of having played the game and of having another chance next time around. All of this is lost when an issue is foreclosed by judicial fiat.

    Which is why I am pleased that the court did not abolish affirmative action by fiat, even though I would like to see it abolished tomorrow by legislation or referendum. Not just because this is a matter for the people to decide, but because abolishing it by judicial decree would create a crisis of legitimacy and keep the issue aflame forever. Or until Justice O'Connor changes her mind again.
     
  2. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    What Krauthammer seems to discount is the fact that the courts did their job. Our system is based on checks and balances that guarantee that if a law goes through the legislature and is approved by the executive, or if a law goes into effect in a state, those laws are STILL subject to the test of constitutionality. Krauthammer blasts judicial activism, but what would be the result of the judiciary keeping their hands off?

    In the case at hand, we would still have laws on the books in Texas that make it legal for police to arrest homosexuals for their behavior in private, behind closed bedroom doors.

    The judiciary is doing its job, and I say bravo to them.
     
  3. Refman

    Refman Member

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    Wrong. The "job" of the court is to strike down laws which violate rights given in the Constitution. What the court did in the case at bar was to create a new right out of whole cloth. What happened in Roe v. Wade was that the court created a nebulous "right to privacy." If you will read the Constitution, you will find that a right to privacy is nowhere to be found. In essence, the court judicially amended the Constitution, creating a "catchall" right that they could fit in anything they pleased. It was abortion then, and it is sodomy now. Ten years from now it could be something else. What we have is judges legislating from the bench.

    For the record, I have always thought that sodomy laws were counteriniuitive and silly. I thought they would have been repealed by now.

    The court repealing them in the name of the mystical right to privacy is not their job.
     
  4. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    LOL. The court did their job by interpreting the constitution and striking down a law that was unjust, unjustifiable, and morally reprehensible.

    If you read the constitution, you find an overriding desire to keep the people free from the overreaching government that had been in place to that point. The framers created the judiciary, in part, to strike down laws that would unjustly deprive people of their rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

    The definition of liberty (taken from dictionary.com) is:

    The condition of being free from restriction or control.
    The right and power to act, believe, or express oneself in a manner of one's own choosing.
    The condition of being physically and legally free from confinement, servitude, or forced labor.
    Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
    A right or immunity to engage in certain actions without control or interference: the liberties protected by the Bill of Rights.

    Liberty is one of the basic rights that the framers set out in the Declaration of Independance, and by anyone's definition of liberty, privacy (the right to be free from unjust or undue governmental control) would definitely qualify as part of it.
     
    #4 GladiatoRowdy, Jul 6, 2003
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2003
  5. subtomic

    subtomic Member

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    Outstanding post!!! With that in mind, it was up to the state to prove that it had a compelling interest to outlaw sodomy. By all accounts, Rosenthal and the state of Texas failed miserably.

    BTW Refman, the case that's considered the cornerstone to the "right to privacy" is Griswold v. Connecticut, not Roe v. Wade.
     
  6. outlaw

    outlaw Member

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    Well how could they be when Governors Bush and Perry pledged to never sign a repeal of them. Why is it OK for them to take away "the will of the people" with their veto but not the Supreme Court (where at least there can be some disent).
     
  7. Achebe

    Achebe Member

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    I'm starting to wonder where some of you guys went to Law School... 7-eleven?

    j/k ref :)
     
  8. subtomic

    subtomic Member

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    Proud law school dropout right here. :D
     
  9. Refman

    Refman Member

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    Interpret...yes. Amend? No. When you judicially create a right, that is judicial amendment. When you give definition to a broad, specific term within the document, that is interpretation.

    Again, I am against those laws. I simply do not think it is the job of the Supreme Court to use a right not included in the text of the Constitution to strike it down.

    Was this decided on Equal Protection grounds? If so, then I must agree. If not, then the compelling interest test does not apply.

    Griswold did set the stage for the nebulous right to privacy. But in Roe, the Court laid out the "penumbrum" of rights that led them to attempt at defining a right to privacy...which has since escaped concrete definition.

    Circle K...thank you. :D
     
  10. wowming

    wowming Member

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    I think it's funny that homophobes are upset with O'Connor, she concurred. Her concurrence was not even necessary. The vote was 6-3. Even if she had joined Scalia's boys, the constitutional right to privacy would still hve been defended and the Texas law would still have been given the boot. Kennedy is who all the bashers should be upset with. (And who all the defenders of liberty should be proud of).
    He is usually in the right wing corner. Of course, he did write the majority opinion in Romer...
    By the way, O'Connor did not change her mind. In Bowers she said that states can outlaw sodomy, she voted to strike down the Texas law because it focused on gay sodomy.
    Thanks to the other five, all adults, of any orientaion, have the constitutional right to commit consensual sodomy in the privacy of their own home.
    As for me, I think that's just great.
     
  11. wowming

    wowming Member

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    Oh yeah, and unless I'm mistaken, that penumbra stuff was in Griswold, not Roe.
     
  12. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    I didn't see where any of the justices actually took pen and ink to change the Constitution. They interpreted that document to include privacy as one of the rights that Americans can expect. By the definition of Liberty (provided earlier), privacy would certainly seem to qualify.

    There are lots of things not included in the text of the Constitution. That is why the framers gave us the ability to amend it and gave us the judicial system, including the Supreme Court, whose mandate is to interpret the Constitution based on the norms and values of the time.

    Privacy is one of those values.

    The Court did its job in commendable fashion by striking down a law that was unjust, discriminatory, and overreaching.
     
  13. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    So, andymoon, the privacy right means that's unconstitutional to criminalize pot, right?
     
  14. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    I disagree. The framers, at least not all of them, did not set up the Supreme Court to strike down laws. I got the impression that they expected the President to veto them. On the state laws, the framers didn't invision the 14th amendment. The power that the Supreme Court now holds is much more than what would be expected from the stuff I've read from framers.

    Its been a while since I've read in this area, but the Jefferson and his cronies feared nonelected officials and I would extrapolate that the same would be assumed of officials appointed by elected officials.

    I do agree the supreme court should have the power to rule a law unconstitutional. I just don't think the framers intended for the Supreme Court to be placed in this position and for the States to relinquish a lot of their power in the 14th. For example, the first amendment specifically says "Congress" not "Congress and States" when protecting things like free speech. The framers didn't seemed to be scared that States would abridge people's rights.
     
  15. Woofer

    Woofer Member

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    This original intent argument stuff is hilarious. Most of em were unapologetic slave owners and rapers to the end.
     
  16. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    This is hilarious. Let's just let the crazy liberals re-write the whole thing, even though many were sympathetic to communism.
     
  17. subtomic

    subtomic Member

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    Actually, any right can be limited if the government (federal, state or local) can demonstrate a compelling reason for that limitation. In the case of pot, the government has apparently (I've never read a case regarding pot) presented such a compelling reason. My guess is that the reason is along the lines of public health and safety.

    The idea of the courts striking down laws which they feel is unconstitutional goes as far back as Marbury v. Madison, so this is hardly a new practice.
     
  18. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    What is a new practice is making up a privacy right and expanding it to new lengths.
     
  19. subtomic

    subtomic Member

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    Depends on how you interpret the Constitution. Andymoon has demonstrated how the right could have been there all along.

    Po-tay-to, Po-tah-to
     
  20. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    I don't know if this was dirested at my post, but if it was..

    I know it is not new, but not set in stone by framers. I just don't think it was something the framers considered because it is something I would consider too important to just have as an understood power of the Court. Personel opinion.

    My main point was that the framers didn't anticipate the constitution having much bearing on State laws as far as civil rights and that it is a huge leap to assume they set up the Supreme Court to strike down laws on the bounds of unconstitutionality for something at the time wasn't unconstitutional.

    PS. I am for civil rights as long as I don't see that one person's rights put an undue hardship on another or the country as a whole. I was mostly just disagreeing with the framer arguement...not the whole arguement.
     
    #20 Joe Joe, Jul 7, 2003
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2003

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