Maybe you don't get offended when people make those comments about Texas because you weren't born there. So are you saying Francis' "cold, rains a lot, they take all your money comment" is not juvenile?. Is Francis' pouty face when he was called the Grizzlies pick on draft day not juvenile? How about his statement about sending his condolences to Stro when he was picked second by the Grizz? I think Vancouver fans have the right, or rather the obligation to show their displeasure towards him. He's acting immature to our city, were gonna reciprocate and act immature towards him by any any means necessary, even if that means hucking tomatoes and oranges at him (which I actually don't support, but whatever floats your boat).I prefer the more sophisticated approach of starting the chant, "A**HOLE, "A**HOLE" when he touched the ball, which unfortunately didn't catch on like I hoped. ------------------ Go Grizz!
An eye for an eye, is it Dickey? You just keep booing Francis, and he will continue to burn your sad bunch of "professional athletes". How immature of you to support the horrible antics of the Vancouver fans. Francis did what he was allowed to do, and both teams benefited from it (well sort of). How sad that the Vancouverites can't see through all of Francis' silly comments. It doesn't matter anyway, your franchise will be moving very soon. ------------------ "Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning how to put food on their family while being put to death."
Sooo..let me get this straight.. If someone acts immature and childish towards you or yours, the appropriate response is to act immature right back at him huh??? I ask merely for information... ------------------ Scene: Watching the Utah-Houston game at home. My daughter: So, those guys in the dark uniforms are the bad guys?? Me: Yes baby, You nailed it on the head!! I'm so proud of my baby!!
Well..generally speaking..no. But when it comes to sports, fans do have the right to vent their frustration towards a specific player if they choose. In this instance, how can fans in Vancouver show their displeasure towards Francis? They can boo his azz until their voices get sore. Again I don't condone throwing things at him, but yes, an eye for an eye when it comes to fans and pro athletes. As a paying fan, I can basically voice my opinion any way I see fit. ------------------ Go Grizz!
I find it ironic that Vancouver fans are told to grow up and forget about Francis when Houston fans, take every opportunity to cry and whine about Pippen. ------------------
There are three main differences between the Pippen and Francis situations : 1) Vancouver didn't pay Steve Francis an eight figure salary to be a mediocre player. 2) Francis made no bones about how he didn't want to play for Vancouver, Pippen put on airs how he wanted to win a championship in Houston. 3) I don't see any threads whinig about how Pippen undermined the NBA by demanding a trade. However, I can understand how you might be upset, so I'd like to offer an apology : First, I'm sorry your GM was such a cast-iron moron that he drafted a player who'd made it blindly obvious he didn't want to play there. Secondly, I'm sorry for feeling bad that Stromile Swift got drafted by a franchise that's in such disarray its players wanna leave like it's a house on fire. Third, I'm sorry that Vancouver is the worst expansion team in history. Fourth, I'm sorry that the only time Vancouverites pay attention to the Grizz is to complain about Francis. Fifth, I'm sorry you don't realize you can't claim righteous indignation after Vancouver fans threw stuff at Francis. There's a fine line between voicing your displeasure(booing) and physical violence(throwing fresh produce at someone). Y'all crossed that line. Sixth, I'm sorry for being such a jackass about this, but get over it. Worry less about where Francis went(Houston), and more where the franchise is going(Louisville? St. Louis? New Orleans -- in Louisiana?). ------------------
Maybe not, but to me it is a similar principle. When Pippen made his public outburst, he "forced" the Rockets to trade him. By doing so, the Rockets were backed into a corner and had to receive far less than ,market value in return for Pippen. Similarly, Francis' express indignation about playing in Vancouver was like a red flag to the rest of the NBA - every GM knew that the Grizz were going to have to trade him, which puts them in a very bad negotiating position. At the time of the Pippen deal, there was an article on ESPN.com basically saying that the Rockets shafted Vancouver in the Francis deal but were returned the favour by Portland with Pippen. I strongly believe that using public statements to force a trade like Pippen and Francis did is wrong. AT THE VERY LEAST, they could have kept it quiet and not disadvantaged the brgaining position of their respective teams, not to mention alienate entire cities. ------------------ Maybe all the rulers are wrong. Current Rocket's Salary & Contract Info
DICKEY_SIMPKINS Please answer the following questions: 1) Is Vancouver colder than most of the U.S.? 2) Does it rain alot in Vancouver? 3) Is the Canadian tax rate higher than the U.S. tax rate? You can not state a solid NO to even just one of the questions. If Steve Francis quotes true facts, what makes it juvenille on his part? I propose only your shallow opinion. Your approach to this issue is poorly focused. You want a scapregoat - look at the incredible blunders made by the former Grizz management (including Big Country's Big Contract). This is why there are fire sale rumors about your only true All Star caliber player and the new ownership is thinking about relocating to another market. And Francis warned the Grizz management far in advance he wouldn't play there. THIS IS HIS RIGHT. Hmmmm....maybe condolences are in order. As a fan, you have a right to express yourself in any non-violent manner you choose. Your selection of profanity and that it is your "obligation" to do so only serves as further evidence of your immaturity. Your A**hole chant didn't catch on because (unlike you) most Vancouverites are not as insecure about their environment and realize that it may not be everyone's "cup of tea". ------------------ GATER [This message has been edited by GATER (edited January 11, 2001).]
Davo- I totally agree with your thoughts. Someone else made a point that everyone has a right to choose where to work, but not everyone can choose their position or employer in the location they want, especially someone just starting out. These guys get paid alot of money to do the things they do. What both Pippen & Francis did was wrong. The Griz had the right to draft whatever player they wanted. THis is true. Francis had the choice to either be a professional about the situation or to be a lil punk (at that time). He chose to be a punk. I like Stevie but what he did was wrong. Fortunately things worked out well for us. We have Stevie and don't have the over-paid pip anymore, although we blundered and overpaid Cato!
It kills me how some of you claim to like Francis but in the same post can call him lil punk . I'm sorry but I don't normally go around calling people I like punks. Maybe what you mean to say is you like his talent but don't like him as a person. If so, thats cool, your entitled to your opinion. But it really bugs me when I get the feeling that some of you really don't like Francis personally and just don't say it or tone down your opinion it hopes that what you post will be more acceptable. Anyway more to the point. What Francis and Pippen did were completely different situations and should be viewed as such. 1. Pippen said that he wanted to be in Houston and that he loved Houston. Not so for Francis. 2. Pippen accepted a very large amount of money to come to Houston. Whereas I really believe that Francis was prepared to sit out an entire season (and lose money) to keep from going to Vancouver (or else why would he have called a press conference). 3. Pippen constantly maintained that here is where he wanted to be, and then blind sided us with comments that forced a trade and put the Rocks in a bad bargaining position (not the Rockets fault). Francis on the other hand (and for the one millionth time) made it perfectly clear that he did not want to play in Vancouver. Yet they still drafted him (all the Grizzlies fault).Whatever his reasons were the question still remains: Why would you draft a player that does not want to play for you?. 4. As far as Steve's comments, hey the truth hurts, he stated facts and was straight about his feelings. Thats more than I can say for Pippens cowardly attack on Barkley and other team mates. In closing, Dickey two wrongs don't make a right. If you Vancouver fans really feel that Francis' comments were juvenile and untrue doesn't it make more sense to be the bigger person(s)or does throwing objects and shouting insults prove your point. Which sounds more childish: a) "I don't want to go there because it's cold, rainy, and you pay more taxes". "Also my condolenses to anyone that does want to go there" or b) "Francis you f!@#king a@#hole (tomatoe thrown)" Unsure? I can't answer it for you but as far as I know only children throw their food. Nuff' said (I hope). ------------------ [This message has been edited by Odiggidy (edited January 11, 2001).]
Odi- Steve also said he wanted to be closer to his family. Now granted Houston is a lil closer to home than Van. but Houston still is very far from the east coast. And yeah what he did was wrong. Vancouver made him the second pick in the draft and hje looked liked someone killed his dog. Everyone faces difficult circumstances in their lives and like I said you can either be a professional about it or you can be a "lil punk". What would it have hurt him to smile say he was happy to be there but go to managment in private and say trade mo or I won't play.
davo: With all due respect, the players own this league. It is theirs and will continue to be that way because they not only make all the money but they drive the revenues. If a team has a great player, that team sells more tickets, more merchandise and gets more national tv appearances (not to mention better cable and radio deals). That is the nature of the business. You are right in saying that players have to accept the rules, but we are crazy to think that getting paid a lot of money makes playing for a rotten team or in a city we hate better. It doesn't. If someone told me I had to live in, let's say, Oklahoma and work for a company doing a job I hated, I'd probably b**** and complain until they either fired me or I'd just quit. That is the same thing as Francis. The difference is that he has all the leverage to begin with because he is the demand part of the supply vs. demand equation. If everyone wanted you to play for them but you HAD to play somewhere you hated, I could see how it would be frustrating and make me want to do something to get out. What he did was completely within the rules as well. Was it a great moment of "good taste?" Not really, but he has been nothing but a great kid since he got here so I think we can excuse one moment of frustration. ------------------ The way to use life is to do nothing through acting, The way to use life is to do everything through being. - Lao-Tzu
There is a BIG difference between Francis and Pippen. Francis didn't say he was happy to play for Vancouver, play like crap, and whine all season. Vancouver didn't ask Francis if he wanted to be traded and Francis said no, then a week later badmouthed a hall-of-famer forcing a trade. Francis didn't say he didn't want to be in Vancouver until it was to late and forced a trade, he made it clear he DID NOT want to play in Vancouver. We didn't try and force Pippen to stay, we shipped his sorry ass out. We didn't throw tomatoes and other crap on the floor at Pippen, and we didn't cheer when Pippen almost got hurt. And our players didn't mug and foul Pippen hard every chance they got like Grant Long and Antoine Carr did. Most of all Francis is producing, getting along with his teammates, and having fun, Pippen is not earning a dime of his money. There is only one similarity between the two, they wanted to be traded. Pippen isn't here, we moved on. But the bottomline, Pippen has a history of doing stupid things and hurting his team, Francis doesn't. ------------------ "I have a scale at home and it only goes up so far, I love that scale!" - Charles Barkley TNT Studios [This message has been edited by RocksMillenium (edited January 11, 2001).]
Hey I am from Oklahoma. But I get your point that is why I left ------------------ Rockets Season Ticket Holder
IMHO, vancouver wasnt screwed in the deal. Harrington-13 ppg 8bg Dickerson-16 ppg 4 apg Price(well he can shoot) If anything you should be GLAD that you werent totally screwed by some other team and that you got two quality players who actually fit your team well. ------------------ President of the Charles Barkley fan club...Oh he retired? When?
Hey Gator, here are my answers. 1)Is Vancouver colder than most U.S. cities? Well, in most cases yes. But let me remind you that Seattle basically has the same weather that we do here in Vancouver. Not much, if any, temperature change between Seattle and Vancouver, for all that don't know is only a few hours drive away. Portland is also similar to Vancouver in terms of weather. 2) Does it rain a lot in Vancouver? During the cold months, yes. But refer to my answer to your first question. Seattle gets a lot of rain too, and I don't think Francis would demand a trade if the Sonics picked him. 3) Canadian taxes are high. But let me remind you of the difference in exchange rate with the US dollar overpowering the Canadian dollar. And let me remind you that the Grizz players get paid in American dollars meaning they get over 50 cents on each Canadian dollar in the city in which they play in. Not bad at all. Why do you think so many Americans vacation here? Gator, you try and justify Francis' move but you fail to recognize that playing in a Canadian city is really not that different than playing in an American city. Francis simply put didn't give Vancouver a chance. You can't deny that. All his excuses about playing closer to home, etc.. can be thrown out the window. Francis was just too ignorant, scared, whatever.. about playing in a city he didn't have a clue about. ------------------ Go Grizz!
Just curious Dickey, but do you think Francis is a good player? ------------------ "Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning how to put food on their family while being put to death."
OK, so alot of US citizens vacation there. It's great scenery. But, Dickey, answer this : who was the last big free agent that signed with Vancouver OR Toronto ? Houston is a very ugly city, and is very hot. Those are facts. But why is Houston (and probably LA ) the leading home to NBA players ? Bottom line, Francis made it clear that he didn't want to play for Vancouver BEFORE the draft. If I were Stu Jackson (thank God I'm not), I would have drafted Odom. But, no, he wanted to force feed Vancouver and it's landscape to Steve. Well, guess what, it didn't work. Be happy that you got two serviceable players in the deal. Now, not another word about this trade. ------------------ "We don't have any plans. We just plan to win." Mack Brown
Dickey: Why don't you answer the harder posts? Start with jeff's and aelliott's and work your way up. Hypothetically, if I were "drafted" upon graduating law school to say... Iowa, I'd do the exact same thing Francis did. Vancouver wasn't even going to let Steve play the POSITION he wanted. I happen to like Vancouver... but you have to allow for some differences in opinion. Quite a few players in the NBA have been migrating to warmer climbs lately. That's part of the reason why Orlando, Phoenix, Houston, and LA have enjoyed free agent success recently. Francis probably shouldn't have pouted... but big deal. That's not exactly a crime, and it doesn't make someone a jerk. You know what IS a common attribute among jerks? I'd say bitterness of mind. ------------------ Shandon Anderson rocks. The lottery sucks. Playoffs 2001.
I never thought I'd say that a team was headed in a worse direction than the Clips but I'm afraid the Grizz are. Believe it or not I think the clips, if and only if they can hold on to these young guys, may become a very good team in the NBA. Players are treating Vancouver like they have been the clippers. I think the only choice they have is to move if they ever want to be good at all. Hey...Missouri has 2 big and popular cities in St Louis and KC and I'm sure one of them would love a B-Ball team to give them a trio of pro teams. ------------------
