mos-def--I just don't think it is the system or style 1) Marbury has been a better and more disciplined (fewer TOs) distributer every year (including while like a 19 year old rookie) than Francis' best year; 2) Marbury has been a pretty consistently good distributer over a wide range of coaches, systems and decent to depleted talent level around him. I really don't like these trends (both players are remarkable consistent just in different directions as far as traditional PGs role an efficiency like A/TO). I will say this is more of a testament to Marbury than a knock on Francis per see. Few guards are tremendous distributers and scorers--not since the GP of a few years ago, and Thomas and Magic before him, has a PG combined the scoring skills and distributer skills balance that Marbury has. That said I think Francis has even greater gifts as a scorer and shooter than Marbury. Ability wise SF really seems somewhere between AI and Marbury--though I have not seen the "chip" and determination to kill their opponents that I have seen in the latter two. In short I am not that hopeful Francis will radically change into a super heandy, tough, disciplined distributer, team organizer and blood thirsty competitor just with a new coach and new system. What I am hopeful is that a new coach and new system will help him modestly improve in leadership, and that he also can be helped by his own players as AI has by having another player share traditional PG duties like routine ball handling and organizing the offense. In other words if he can just get a little better at traditional PG/leader role, and the rest of the team can get a little better at simplifying things for him and sharing the leadership/traditional PG type roll, maybe as a team that will be enough. This is why I have some optimism in SF and his role in an improving Rocket team. However I just don't know if you can teach toughness, unflappability, floor sense, headiness and a win at all costs passion to a great extent if much of it already isn't there--and though SF has many terrific skills as a BB player those latter ones he has not struck me as exceptional in. I don't expect dramatic individual change in SF in the former attributes, I think the realist in me says I am hopefull for more modest improvement or tweeking as a leader. Thus I guess overall I am a realistic optimist about SF's improvement as a player/leader and the Rockets fate as a team as they learn better to help integrate him.
there is no way of comparing Francis and Kidd......i think Francis could be a diff type of point guard.......id like to use a more old school comparison Francis and Isiah Thomas...I think Francis' game should be more like Thomas in that he scored and dished at the same time....I wouldnt want Francis to change into a Jason Kidd type player (one that doesnt score that much) but more like a Thomas or even a Nate Archibald (led league in scoring and assists in the same year), one that scores and gets assists at high numbers
Isn't it funny how 2 good pure shooters liek Walt Williams and Glenn Rice never played well here. I gues syou can look at it 2 ways: 1- They forgot how to shoot 2- The PG never got them the ball when and where they wanted it PGs are responsible for makign their teammates better. I thought the Big O told Stevie that att eh All-Star game this year, hopefully Stevie will understand that someday (or more than likely he gets moved to teh SG)
Francis is better than Kidd NOW. He would kill him in a 1 on 1. TALent(all in basket: Francis:9.5 Kidd:7
Steve's assists come from either 3pt line or midrange jumpers because he routinely drives into the paint with 4 guys around in a zone defence then have to dish out (EG being on the team doesn't help either). There are very few of his assists that comes from a smart play, good passing or just a simple PnR. Also, if you think Kidd would fail playing for the Rox you are wrong. The Nets have no good shooters (unless you go to the bench). Kidd, Collins, KMart and to some extend Kittles all can't shoot. Jefferson some Houston fans would argue he can't shoot either if not for the open looks Kidd gives him, which even more proves how much better Kidd is than SF. I know the Spurs play great D but now that the Nets can't play their transition game Kidd can still get around 10 dimes per game. Do you think SF can do that? How many games do you think the Rockets would win against the Spurs in a 7 game series. Steve can be great, but unless he gets smart real quick he'll never be as good as Jason Kidd.
Bringing up one-on-one just makes your point puerile. Learn from others and use reasonable points because the NBA is not a "one-on-one" deal.
if the Rox were in the eastern conference we would have been in the playoffs every year of steve's career. jason kidd has a team that is taylor made for his skills, they get out and run and have a motion offense that gives kidd the ability to get teammates open looks. the fact that they are the best team in the east means that they play like 50-some odd games against inferior competition so jason should have better numbers against weak comp. when kidd was in pho he was surrounded by a number of offensive players who were better than who surrounds steve. i think that kiss is a better distributor, but steve could very well be the most complete pg in the western conference (if not the league).
I agree with what MFW2310 has been saying (for the most part). It all boils down to the fact that Kidd has a point guard's mentality and basketball sense and Francis doesn't. Unfortunately, it seems to me this is something you are born with...the instincts on how to make that pass in that spot and other decision making. I just don't see Francis being able to do that, but I hope he proves me wrong. And I always thought that whole mess with Toni Braxton and the 3 J's was an urban legend. "Personal transformation comes at a hefty price. For every new success, there are those who remain unimpressed. But Toni seems to have more than her fair share of vicious rumors that are swimming like piranha in the infested waters of entertainment media. She's been accused of breaking up the NBA's Dallas Mavericks by setting off a feud between two of its stars. "I never met Jason Kidd or Jimmy Jackson," she says, rolling her eyes at the mention of the well-worn controversy. "About a year ago, this reporter asked me if I had dated one or kissed the other, and me, trying to be cute, said, Well, I'll never kiss and tell. It's amazing how one year people are accusing me of being a lesbian, and the next year I'm a w**** who dated the entire NBA." Both Jackson, who now plays with the Nets, and Kidd, currently with Phoenix, have strenuously denied any involvement with Toni."
espn.com did an article that basically confirmed that she was involved with the players although to what extent and how that played in breaking up the team is anyone's guess
Oh there was probably something going on, but I think ESPN probably made it worse than it really was and of course Braxton completely blowing it off like she never even knew them makes that whole thing suspicious. It was probably something in between what ESPN reported and what that Braxton site reported.
We are discussing who is better individually, not who apports more at his team(francis too). The speed, shot, ineligence, strength, hability, defense... are cualities that you can demstrate in a 1on1. And that's said by all coaches. And other thing: Basketball with more one-on-ones and more individual responsabilities will be better and more funny. Maybe in this way we wouldn't be seeing a finals so "pueriles". ANd look at the Mavs, I don't say that's well but with Nowitzki maybe they would be the champions.
4chuckie, i respect you and all, but did you watch the games that walt played for the rox? he was either wide open and feeling it, hittin consecutive three's, or he was clanging bricks. also, walts problem is he has too much ego, he doesnt want to be just known as a spot up shooter. he keeps driving to the basket or driving into a group of defenders. just look at the mavericks games for more verification of that. he still has stars in his eyes from his maryland days. the only consistant 3pt threat stevie played for was bullard, and the bull put up decent enough #'s to get a fat paycheck and vanish. and rice? please, this was his first semi-healthy year with the roxs and shot over 33% from the three. a jump shooter with no knees is no longer premier. he also tries to drive more too. did you ever see this? stevie penetrates, dishes off to a wide open walt, or rice, and he fakes, and drives to either blow a layup, get fouled, or get an unassisted basket. i am not saying stevie is god, i am just saying that the system that stevie has grown into is not as conduscive to assist # like kidd (or even starrbury) get. i also think he needs a few more years at point in a real run and gun system till he really becomes dominant. but we all have our opinions though. i would like to know if any our basketball experts can break down the systems kidd and starrbury have played for, and if they ever had to learn to play with a big man. that could really be eyeopening. i know kidd started of with nellie who probably taught him alot.
mfw, lol, i will bet you some cash, brotha!! but you did confirm my point. driving into the paint while all the other guys are on the perimeter and dishing when they all were sucked in WAS the system. if stevie had more cutters like kidd (besides kato, and he makes cato look good! now thaTs hard!) then he probably woould be better served. but instead, rudy invested in shooters. but we really are arguing apples and oranges. i bet if stevie had an as*hole like payton at the playground telling everybody to NOT give kidd the ball or telling him he better dish or get a beating then stevie would probably have "better courtvision" or "higher basketball IQ" as well!! fear is a powerful motivator!
Mos-Def- We must have watched different games. I saw steve penetrate and do one of 2 things: 1- Stevie shoots it himself 2- Stevie passed it to a teammate who was not in a good position to score (either a pass which wasn't in a good spot or the player was passed teh ball in a bad position, which could be the players fault to) So no I missed all the open shots Walt had during his time here.
It may have been said by others, but I want to add to it one more time: Athletically, Francis >> Jason. As the leader of their team, Jason >>> Francis.
This is about the dumbest post in this thread. How is Steve supposed to get Rice involved when he's NEVER healthy? As far as Walt Williams is concerned, he had two better years than here than his previous year in Portland and now he averages 4 points less than he did in Houston. But I guess if Nash was a better point and got him more shots Dallas would when the championship.
Um, it's about scoring options. Both the old Blazers and now Dallas had many more scoring options than Walt Williams' Rockets. Walt is a third rate player at best. Who would you give your shots to, Nowitzki, Finley and Nash or Walt Williams?
