Ok man, sorry if I pissed you off with my response I'm just tired of this ****. I'll always be a fan, but the can just keeps getting kicked, while ole Jim makes a ton of cash with our mom existent payroll I think Cosart has a lot of potential at age 24, but it's not even about him If they traded him and the main piece was major league ready I'd be ok There aren't many of us left that follow this team everyday I'm one of them but I'm fed up
I think this is a fair point if they were claiming to try to win or if you had no choice but to hold your season tickets (say, there's a waiting list like the Texans). But I think they've been very open with their strategy, and you know when you buy season tickets, that you're seeing a AAAA team that is regularly re-tooling. Fans always have the option of dropping their tickets and just buying them again when the team claims to be ready to compete. This is basically the same design strategy as the 76ers.
They put out really high demands for for Cosart and the Marlins took it. Can't complain with that strategy even though the big league club will be worse temporarily.
Just for discussion what would you do with Appel, Tropeano and Foltynewicz next season. Should we keep Cosart, Keuchel, McHugh, Obie all in the rotation for the next 2 years because they may become good? I always figured we had to move one of our starters. Feldman was a bad signing and largely untradedable. Of the other 4 guys Cosart has been the least effective, although he has the best stuff.
No hey, I get it, and wasn't totally against trading Cosart which I posted before the deal Just wish we would have moved him, even packaged him with another if those guys, for a young major league hitter who was ready now I have been all in on the rebuild, was a big supporter when we started But we have huge amounts of minor league depth Start to Build a freaking major league team one of these years
All three of those will probably be up in 2015. Tropeano and Folty hopefully get called up soon and sooner. 2015 Rotation? Keuchel Appel Obie/McHugh (expect one to get traded during offseason) Folty Tropeano I did love today's trade. Cosart's production can be replaced by multiple guys (Folty, NiTro, Asher W., Appel)
Makes sense. I would have loved to see Cosart moved for an established bat to add offense now. But really, this year, it is not important to compete, but just head in the right direction. Marisnick has always been a good prospect and is ready for the majors - maybe a change of scenery helps him reach that potential this year..but still a lot of doubt there, not established. With that said, this team will end up with a better record than last year by at least ~15 wins this year IMO. That's great improvement, even if we are near the bottom of the standings still. Now, we have a butt-load of assets to trade for established players in the next couple of years when we will actually be competing again AND have plenty of pitching depth to replace Cosart with. I know it sucks for now, but we aren't realistically competing for a wildcard spot this year regardless if we had acquired an established player for Cosart. We did put ourselves in a great position to do so in the coming years though, and as always our goal is on the 2016-2017 seasons and beyond.
2016-2017 quickly becomes 2018-2019, and the fan base is becoming trained to think that is ok. As long as the national media says our farm system is one of the best in baseball, then it's all good And in reality, Crane doesn't even really care about that. As long as the payroll is a joke (and he can easily keep it there by trading away anyone who shows anything at all in the majors) then he will make a huge amount of profit off of the national tv deal, even without making anything on the local fiasco The only one in Houston laughing tonight is Jim Crane Jim Jones would have done really well with the current astros fan base
You said you were on board with the whole rebuilding idea. The original plan was to be competitive by 2016/2017. That is still the goal. Nothing had changed with this trade. If by that time, we aren't competitive and it becomes 2018/2019, I agree that is ridiculous. But for now, we are still on our original rebuilding track.
Seriously?? How does this trade set us back a year. We traded at best a #3 starter and a utility player, and got quality position prospects that are being placed at or above the level of the guys everyone thinks will make us competitive in '16-'17. Add to that we got a compensation pick and a young arm, both of which could turn into something or at worst be used to bring in some major league level talent in the future. Please explain how that sets us back. Cosart is easily replaceable by other arms already in the system and Kike wasn't going to be a major (if any) part of the franchise's future. I just can't get the "We traded a young guy off the Major League Roster, so now we are going to suck for infinity" mindset. Please enlighten me.
You need to understand that people who are complaining about this are people that were going to complain no matter what happened, outside of trading single-A roster-fillers for David Price and Jon Lester. It's an exercise in futility arguing with them or trying to knock sense into them.
Some maybe, but not me. I was actually very happy when it looked like the deadline passed without us making a move. I have plenty of positive things to say on this forum about the Astros. There are very few fans left who give this organization more support than I still do going to half of the home games I'm sorry that I'm not thrilled with the move. I'm sorry that I do not blindly support everything Crane/Luhnow do. I'm sorry that I'm tired of paying major league prices 40 times a year for minor league product And don't forget, if everyone just said "in Luhnow we trust" and just supported every move, this forum would have no purpose. It must be great to run a professional sports organization in this town with so many fans with no expectation of winning
I just wanted the top piece, if we made a move, to be major league ready. I just think that at 24 Cosart has done well and has an excellent future. His last month has been bad, but he is a guy who has had plenty of success in the majors at a young age and the return is guys who have zero major league success and no guarantee of ever having any. It's just not the kind of move I want us to continue to make, I know I'm in the minority on this and that is fine I will shut up on the whole thing. Crane is the man. In Luhnow we Trust
Taking your ball and going home because someone disagreed with you on a message board? I've hated moves in the past. Most moves Purpura and Ed Wade and Dreighton. I feel like we are now the ones ripping other teams off. The guys we got appear to have more talent than the guys we gave up.
I feel like this is such an unfair representation of folks who are often happy with how the organization is running, or who haven't arrived at an opinion yet. It amounts to ad hominem. Not intending to pick on you; I just see it a lot and it's unfair. For the record, I'm not happy with the Cosart trade, either.
General consensus is that the Astros did well in this trade. It isn't blind support to like this trade.
Some of us fear that the Astros will be become the Royals. The Royals have a great farm but average to mediocre MLB team. The Royals tend to trade their young MLB talent to maintain a great farm. Unlike the Cosart trade, the Royals tend to wait until a player is closer to FA before making the trade. The Cosart trade may turn out to be a fair trade for both teams, i.e. the traded players for their respective teams may generate the same lifetime MLB WAR. In that case, the Astros essentially traded 2014 and 2015 WAR for 2016+ WAR. Your assertion that Cosart is easily replaced appears to be willfully meaningless. The Astros certainly have 10+ starting pitchers in AAA and AA who they can call up to replace Cosart, but none of them would likely replace his WAR. Most of the 10 do not even have MLB experience. I would not be surprised if a year from now Luhnow is kicking himslef for making this trade, wishing he showed the MLB team a little more love.
For me, it still goes back to the "unknown" of Luhnow being able to build an actual MLB team. We know he can build a farm system... and he's continuing to do that with trades like this. He could conceivably continue to just hit the "reset" button again and again if he doesn't feel comfortable with the guys he has (and that may only be until we get a MLB roster full of guys his regime drafted or hand-picked/traded for). I don't doubt he's "trying" to get there... and these assets galore need to start turning into some viable MLB talent... the question is can he do it, and when is it actually going to start happening. Most non-contending teams don't trade 24 year old 2nd year starters who have "healthy" arms, and have taken the ball without fail throughout their MLB career (with a + WAR)... and I don't think anybody can justifiably say that Cosart "is who he is forever, right now"... if that would be the case, there's no way the Marlins give up as much as they did.
If you felt the success was a mirage, would you be more OK with the trade? Because all the advanced stats suggest that - and I suspect the front office looks at those more than ERA given their nature. Not saying they are right, but that's likely part of the decision making - they suspect he's going to regress and its a "trade high" move. People tend to believe in "trade high" but then when it comes to time to do it, they get skittish because every player at his "high" looks like a budding star. And then they regress to reality and people say "oh I wish we had traded him last year" (Jed Lowrie, for example). I would guess that happens here, except that the trade actually got made.
