Teasing? Do you really think that the English translation part is the real translation for that made up Chinese phrase? It is OK to tease Yao for his style of speaking, making metaphor and such. However, the made up Chinese part is uncalled for.
actually, some black people do speak ebonics and some black people dislike people who assume they speak ebonics or listen to rap or whatever cause its stereotyping. but the ching chong crap is not a chinese version of ebonics ok. there are no such words in the chinese language. it's complete gibberish made up by americans, and the reason why some people find it offensive, is not for the words itself, but the fact that those words are usually associated with racial violence or several types of discrimination that occurs with those words added to mock people. if you think minorities are the only ones that complain about racism, how come white jewish always complain about any little thing they might consider anti-semitic? why is it, nobody tells them to get over it? why don't they tell them to stop being oversensitive or whatever. why is it they give anti-semitic comments much more coverage in the media than comments that are insensitive to asian people? if somebody made a jewish joke that was insensitive, the media coverage would have been larger. can i ask you something? do non-white people come up to any white person they meet on the street and talk in a arnold schwarzennegger accent and act like all white people talk like that? NO. so don't bring up irrelevant examples. i know white people who go to china trying to pick up the language are not laughed at for their lack of chinese speaking ability. in fact, chinese television even goes out of their way to portray american people as being able to speak perfect chinese. unlike the US television shows that regularly use chinese people as comedy and make fake imitations of their lack of english proficiency. also there are actually talk shows in china that sometimes address issues sensitive to visitors of china. also, you don't see people on chinese television mocking americans the way americans mock asian people. if you read something besides the standard US history textbook, and read about discrimination against chinese people in the US, you might understand how much you don't know about the situation. what i posted here doesn't even scratch the surface of the inhuman images that were depicted in the US of chinese people or the discrimination they confronted in all facets of life or how they also fought to establish and change certain civil rights laws or how african slave labor was being replaced by asian slave labor. white people have used comedy to disguise racism before in history. does anybody remember the blackface minstrels? (white people with makeup on imitating blacks and using them as comedy) well do you know that even in today's era, on shows such as mad tv or saturday night live, there have been times where they used a white person with makeup on and a black wig who spoke bad english on purpose and also squinted their eyes and depicted an asian woman as a stupid slut. how history repeats the same racist mistakes and doesn't notice it as racism is what i find funny. i've also read some recently published books that printed common stereotypes of asian people and the publication date was 2002. something's never change.
Maybe it's because you're "The One".... you know, the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the CC.net bbs. For real though, this post is just an excuse to test out the cool new message icon. edit: a test that failed miserably. i don't see the message icon anywhere... ??
Technically, I don't think this is "racism" because it makes no statements relating quality of ability to genetic, phyisical racial difference. Perhaps "linguism", since it implys that orental languages are difficult to follow (I guess?) for English language speakers. Regarding the Jewish comment, there is very much a seperate "racial" group for Jews, though it has become watered down and it is harder to see for all of the difference in the US. The problems in Europe and Russia related to the Jewish dispora, however, were that wherever the Jews went they remained seperate and didn't intermarry with the other populations. This resulted in a "racial seperateness" and racial minority status. See Yugoslavia for examples that just because people have pale skin doesn't mean that they are all racially the same. "Ebonics" is offensive because, in fact, "ebonics" is viewed by many people as a "degraded" form of the language as would be spoken by people of low inteligence, rather than simply a dialectical variance, such as the difference between American English and Scottish English. There is a similar effect for some white people that is associated with caricatured New York of carictured Southern red-neck accents. People who don't see this as a sign of infeority, however, don't seem to be offended. What, for instance, should Caucasian people who speak some form of Chinese as their primaray language think of this? Should they be racially offened? I get the impression sometimes that people in China view China as a Chinese/Han state and that the two can not and should not be seperated. I find this somewhat disturbing. But back to the subject at hand. Here is the dictionary definition of racism: racism n 1: the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races 2: discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race I don't see how this particular ESPN page would fit within that definition. I do, however, think it is insensitive as hell.
actually, some black people do speak ebonics and some black people dislike people who assume they speak ebonics or listen to rap or whatever cause its stereotyping. but the ching chong crap is not a chinese version of ebonics ok. there are no such words in the chinese language. it's complete gibberish made up by americans, and the reason why some people find it offensive, is not for the words itself, but the fact that those words are usually associated with racial violence or several types of discrimination that occurs with those words added to mock people. if you think minorities are the only ones that complain about racism, how come jewish whites always complain about any little thing they might consider anti-semitic? why is it, nobody tells them to get over it? why don't they tell them to stop being oversensitive or whatever. why is it they give anti-semitic comments much more coverage in the media than comments that are insensitive to asian people or racial violence against asians? why is it that when racial violence occurs against asians, it's ignored. if somebody made a jewish joke that was insensitive or a jewish person was killed, the media coverage would have been larger than an asian being murdered in a racial hate crime or a insensitive joke about asians. can i ask you something? do non-white people come up to any white person they meet on the street and talk in a arnold schwarzennegger accent and act like all white people talk like that? NO. so don't bring up irrelevant examples. i know white people who go to china trying to pick up the language are not laughed at for their lack of chinese speaking ability. in fact, chinese television even goes out of their way to portray american people as being able to speak perfect chinese. unlike the US television shows that regularly use chinese people as comedy and make fake imitations of their lack of english proficiency. also there are actually talk shows in china that sometimes address issues sensitive to visitors of china. also, you don't see people on chinese television mocking americans the way americans mock asian people. if you read something besides the standard US history textbook, and read about discrimination against chinese people in the US, you might understand how much you don't know about the situation. what i posted here doesn't even scratch the surface of the inhuman images that were depicted in the US of chinese people or the discrimination they confronted in all facets of life or how they also fought to establish and change certain civil rights laws or how african slave labor was being replaced by asian slave labor. white people have used comedy to disguise racism before in history. does anybody remember the blackface minstrels? (white people with makeup on imitating blacks and using them as comedy) well do you know that even in today's era, on shows such as mad tv or saturday night live, there have been times where they used a white person with makeup on and a black wig who spoke bad english on purpose and also squinted their eyes and depicted an asian woman as a stupid slut. how history repeats the same racist mistakes and doesn't notice it as racism is what i find funny. i've also read some recently published books that printed common stereotypes of asian people and the publication date was 2002. something's never change. also, i'm not really angry about what this guy said in the article, because there are more serious forms of racism against asians. what i'm concerned about is how the media continues to downplay all asian racial concerns and make it seem less serious. while they make it appear as if jewish people are actively discriminated against. also another reason why white people are not stereotyped is because they have multi-dimensional roles on tv and are portrayed as such. minorities often play a stereotypical role on tv and are often depicted as such in the media.
The reason they are using that quote is that is the precise thing that Shaq said. That is ESPN being ESPN, they want to be a little edgy, but at the same time they cover their tracks. If those comments would have actually turned out to be something more unacceptable by the public, ESPN would never repeat them. This situation w/ Yao & Shaq, however, turned out to be a major event in the end b/c it seemingly brought the two of them together and resulted in the first meeting here when they embraced.
Okay, seriously, a sense of humor would help. All ethnicities are stereotyped. They are freakin hilarious, all of them. And in a sense, they are true. If you look at all the stereotypes from a comedic standpoint, there is no reason to take offense to any of them. Its all for fun and show. Take a deep breath and enjoy.
That is an ignorant comment, you are obviously trying to pick a fight on an issue that simply does not need to be discussed. When something like this happens, it is foolish discussions that build a harmless comment into a major issue. If Yao Ming was not able to play in the NBA because of his ethnicity, then you have a racism case. Do you not recall the Visa commercial Yao was just in? I believe the entire premise was set around different individuals from different parts of the world not understanding one another. Yo...Yao...Yo...Yao...Yo...Yogi... So in your life this is the first time you have EVER heard someone teased about there accent? I know I have had jokes made about my Texas accent throughout my life and I haven't had a problem with the humor. In your life you have never teased a friend or another person about the way the pronounce a word or phrase?
no i have never teased a friend or another person about the way the way they pronounce a word or phrase, there are funnier things to make fun of you know. and i'm not trying to get into a long debate about this either. and like i said, what he said doesn't really make me mad, as long as people can see it as sarcasm i don't mind. the following is just a small excerpt from a book: mainstream society has depicted chinese as workers in service industries such as laundries, and restaurants. Those who aspired to break into the professions--that is, college graduates with degrees in fields such as engineering, architecture, or the sciences--faced difficulty in trying to secure positions at large caucasian-controlled firms. In California, consonant with the state's legacy of racial discrimination, many firms had specific regulations against hiring asians. "It is almost impossible to place a chinese or japanese of either the first or second generation in any kind of position, engineering, manufacturing, or business," the stanford university placement service reported in 1928. In a family memoir, Father and Glorious Descendant, Pardee Lowe wrote about the discrimination he faced when seeking work, when certain whites could not see beyond the stereotype of the Chinese as houseboy or coolie. While a student at Stanford University, Lowe had applied for a job as a chauffeur for a banker's wife, who insisted upon speaking to him in pidgin English. "You Chinee boy or Jap boy?" she asked. "Chinese, of course, but born in this country," an astonished Lowe replied. "Me no likee, me no wantee Chinee boy, " she said. Suppressing a "huge desire to laugh," Lowe responded, "Mrs. Bittern, I understand perfectly." Lowe saw with distressing clarity that it was his skin color and not some fault in his credentials that barred him from employment. Even his flawless, educated English could not overcome a prospective employer's prejudice about the Chinese. "Everywhere i was greeted with perturbation, amusement, pity or irritation---and always with identically the same answer," he wrote. "Sorry," they invariably said, "the position has just been filled." My jaunty self-confidence soon wilted. I sensed that something was radically, fundamentally wrong. It just didn't seem possible that overnight all of the positions could have been occupied, particularly not when everybody spoke of a labor shortage. Suspicion began to dawn. What had father said? "American firms did not customarily employ Chinese." To verify his statement, I looked again in the newspaper that next morning and for the week after, and sure enough, just as i expected, the same ten ads were still in the newspapers." that's just one of the many ways that those stereotypes are sensitive to some people. also why is it that out of all the ethnic groups? mainly chinese are stereotyped as not being able to speak english? i find it very hard to believe that out of all ethnic groups, chinese are the most deficient at speaking english especially when top universities are making new admission requirements to make it harder for asians to be admitted because too many of them are intelligent and frequently score high on sats in both english and math. these stereotypes are bs. not all stereotypes have truths to them. a lot of them are based on ignorance.
Not sure. It could it be related with the difficulty of knowing the Chinese dialect and then trying to learn English. Something that is not that easy. Have you ever noticed that when a German -- that speaks fluent German -- is able to pronounce/learn English words easier? At least from an English perspective it's easier to understand. Or maybe a French speaking person. When I was a teenager (16) a Vietnamese friend of mine got a job at where I worked. He had been in the USA for 6 years. He knew enough English to get a job. His accent was very strong. And it was hard to understand him at times. But he was getting better every year. My dad's 2nd wife, was Swiss. She knew 4 languages: French, German, Italian and English. She had been speaking English for 7 years, but her English accent was near perfect. This difficulty for Asians to learn some dialects (accents and all) could be a reason. So, when they try to learn English, this might have something to do with it (stereotype). The bad part of this is that some people associate "not knowing/and or pronouncing English" with not being smart or educated. Which is not always true. P.S. Not all Asian dialects are hard for English speaking people to learn. For example, I lived in Japan for a few years. And Japaneese was a lot easier to learn (words and phrases) than Vietnamese. And I've heard that Mandarin (Chinese) is the hardest of all. Remember, I'm talking about pronunciations and accents. Not written, like Kanji.
Stereotypes are not true. Truth implies logic and informed reasoning. They're shorthand for dehumanizing a person by virtue of the way they look. Almost all stereotypes originated from the intent of malice to the target. Many people take stereotypes out of the media and put them in real life situations. The irony is that that ESPN guy is the stereotype for a Jewish comedy writer; he is a big F*n joke. Offensive jokes are the tip of the iceberg, but we waste the most effort on that issue. It's usually not the joke itself that would be offensive to the group, it's the other inherent forms of prejudice that makes the joke the straw that breaks the camel's back. Good and bad stereotypes all serve the same purpose despite the original intent. Unfortunately, it's all about a joke.
I put their English translation into Babelfish and their Chinese phrase was what came out, so I don't see what the big deal is.
That's an incorrect statement. Most stereotypes born from history, traditions and culture. The reason that a direct stereotype could be wrong (uninformed reasoning) is if the intended target does not fit the history, tradition, or culture of that stereotype. This especially happens here in the USA, where it's homogenized, but there's a huge range of different "cultures" at the same time. Example: Would it be an incorrect stereotype if it was stated that Mexicans like Tacos? The answer is, no. It's not an incorrect stereotype. A resonable person could infer the above statment to be true (some might even confuse that inference with being "racist." Which is absurd). But it would be an incorrect streotype if it was stated that ALL Mexicans like Tacos, based on that stereotype.
Man... What is it with Chinese people with their small wee wee's getting all upset about us not getting their language at times? Come on! In your translations shouldn't we all be happy donkey donkey happy special fun time special happy fun time? I mean, what gives?
Stereotypes are generated from perceptions of the leading social class. Mistyping the intended target is generally inconsequencial to the media to the point where the intended target becomes a part of that stereotype to the general public. It's misleading to assume that most stereotypes are an abridged version of cultural roots. Human traits such as indolence, violence, nobility, lechery, parsimony, etc... are what some stereotypes try to label onto groups that could carry a degree of truth but does not have to. French food is popular in a lot of countries. Americans like tacos and Chinese food too. Where would culture and tradition come in? I guess it's reasonable to assume that Mexicans like it more, but the accuracy of that comment would make stereotypes an illogical way to judge an individual's preferences, no? The nature of American society has an individualistic mindset, yet we're so attuned to group traits to the point where you have to ask how much does the average person distinguish the group from the individual.
The part where you talk about "Human traits such as indolence, violence, nobility, lechery, parsimony, etc..." is another issue. That goes into areas of social class, effect of poverty on a group, and the effect that results from it. So, yes. There are social stereotypes too in terms of those traits. But that goes across the board. Because any race put in poverty will act out (revolt to a point). Regardless of race. This goes in socialism and psychology. Which can get very complex. But I still enjoy talking about... The stereotype wasn't that Mexicans "liked Tacos more," but that they did in fact like them based on history, traditions, and culture. Not more or less than Americans. The rest of you post I agree on. As far as the Media. Well, that's another issue. Especially now since they've been gobbled up by the corporate conglomerate. The "leading social class" will always have the power to sway public opinion, good or bad. That's always been the case throughout history. The one thing that I had a problem was, was your statement that ALL stereotypes were not true, or had no merit. This is more an issue here in the USA, than in Europe or Asia (because of our diverse nature). But they too have a preconceived notions about American "culture" as well. Actually, nationalism is much stronger in Europe than in the USA (some call it racism). That is a interesting subject. What do you think about that topic?
last time i checked white people buy elongate more than anybody else. and if chinese had such small wees wees, why is it in history books, they bring up that some of the stereotypes people made about chinese were out of jealousy. one such example was when white women started marrying chinese men, some news media, made it a point to diss interracial couples like those and make the chinese men look evil and stupid with bad english among other ridiculous myths. also why is it that during that era when chinese people started becoming known for their hard work, and ingenuity and the fact they were more effective and cost efficent and less lazy than their white counterparts, that they started coming out with more stereotypes of asian people. also why is it, that after it became known that chinese were better at many jobs than white people, they came up with the chinese exclusion act to prevent us from coming into this country because they've always been threatened by us. here's a thought-provoking overview of how the Chinese have been an integral part of American history - that in fact, the country as we know it could not possibly exist without the participation and contributions of Americans of Chinese descent. "There is nothing inherently alien about the Chinese-American experience."Chinese shared the same problems as all other immigrants - universal problems that recognized no borders." if you carefully trace the evolution of this American people through an interwoven history of both China and the United States, including written memoirs and recorded oral histories, and countless interviews.. From building railroads to the earliest rockets, from agriculture to pioneering AIDS research, Chinese-Americans have been at the core of the American infrastructure. At the same time, to celebrate Chinese-American achievement is to recognize and understand institutionalized racism. But throughout American history, Chinese immigrants, later joined by other immigrants of Asian descent, have maintained a legacy of political activism: They upturned laws that not only excluded new Asian immigrants but those that kept whole families apart for decades, laws that robbed Asian-Americans of their basic civil rights, including testifying against murderers and other criminals who happened to be white, and laws that banned Asian immigrants from being naturalized or owning property or marrying white people. Asian-Americans have endured other struggles, including perpetual anti-Chinese violence, from early "yellow peril" purges to dehumanization in the media, symbolized by such insulting representations as Fu Manchu to Icebox.com's animated Mr. Wong. They have survived unfounded challenges to American patriotism, like Tsien Hsue-shen, who pioneered the US space program only to be deported on false charges. In spite of such a legacy, Chinese and other Asian-Americans have achieved vast success in virtually every field. They have also gained considerable status economically. Even now, however, , "Despite this long legacy of contribution, many Chinese-Americans continue to be regarded as foreigners.... Accents and cultural traditions may disappear, but skin tone and the shape of one's eyes do not. These features have eased the way for some to regard ethnic Chinese as exotic and different - certainly not 'real' Americans." That sense of being perceived as foreign is not limited to the ethnic Chinese, as most Asian-Americans, regardless of how many generations their families have been American, can remember being asked, "Where are you really from?"
