It wasn't that long ago when we were the dream job...we were all celebrating ourselves, Jeff was ( accurately, I thought--not a shot at Jeff, just an example ) waxing lyrical about it becoming more and more apparent that WE were the no. 1 spot on the Coaching Vacancy Tour...Several coaches were publicly ranking us, in an unusual move, as the no. 1 place to be... So what happened? Agreed that Detroit certainly opened up and might have been seen as no. 1A, but still, where did it go from us being the job to have to us being weighed versus Detroit and found wanting...and now, in a truly humbling procedure, we are being balanced off against Washington, of all places, and it doesn't yet seem to be an uneven race. But the point isn't about whether we're a better option than the Wizards...clearly we are...but why are we losing our prestige? Why did we lose out to Detroit? Money. Why is it taking us a long time to land Van Gundy, and why are we playing the whole negotiation game, when Cleveland already filled their vacancy, Detroit got it done in a matter of hours, and now we risk losing our next no. 1 option of Atlanta or Washington prove as aggressive as Dumars was? I think it must be about the Benjamins. I can't see any other reason we go from being the clear favorite to being in a close race with Washington, let alone losing one to Detroit. We know that money was an issue with Brown, and it got settled fairly cheaply..and we still felt out of our depth. So is there anything to suggest that it's not a financial reason? Yeah, there are two ways to look at this: JVG is playing the game for more cash...or JVG feels the need to play the game for more cash, as Silas and Brown did not. Either way, it would seem that we have slipped a tad in the rankings, and the only reason i can see that being the case is that we are bargain hunting, assured as we were of our place on the Tour, and maybe, just maybe we are paying the price of not playing the price.
I am not in the (lack of) benjamins category. I am concerned that it is the indecisivness of the leadership. Why is Detroit even with Houston? Only because the East is an easier road to travel to the Finals? Or front office?
Hmm tough choice. A team that went to the EC finals and has the 2nd pick in the draft or a team that has promise but hasn't made it to the playoffs in few years. That is how Detroit is ahead of Houston. I do agree that it wasn't really a money situation between us and Detroit. But if JVG goes to Washington, that will be about the money. CK
Perhaps, but isn't it also a possibility that after meeting with him, these guys don't want to work for Les Alexander? He has traditionally been a hands-off owner, but at this point all bets are off.
you may be right, but i'd like to add in another factor you failed to mention: we are victims of being in the western conference. having steve francis and yao ming is quite an enticing offer for any coach to consider. and the city of houston is, primarily, a nice place to be. but when you consider that we were the 9th place team in quite possibly the strongest conference ever, the mountain seems much harder to climb. notice that the coaches we have or potentially could have "lost" (brown, jvg, silas) all are looking at jobs in the eastern conference. the road is much easier in the east, as the playing field is wide open. so the opportunity for the ultimate success, the nba finals, is much more likely for a coach in the east. everyone clamors about the future of the rockets and how bright it is. but the reality is that the nba is all about winning NOW...not later. this is especially true for coaches. so, if you were a coach, what situation would you rather be in: a) coach of a team that's at least 2-3 years from being championship contenders in the west? or b) coach of a team that has a legitimate shot at getting to the finals in the east? i'd say most coaches will choose "b". even if you get crushed in the finals vs. the west, you can always say "hey, we got there." what this all means is that the rockets have to aggressively pursue the coach that they want and not sit back on their laurels. this, imo, was the number one mistake they made with larry brown. whether he ever intended to coach in houston is debatable, but what is not debatable is the lack of serious effort the rockets put into getting brown. a counterproposal would have been nice, guys. so now we're negotiating with a hardball playing JVG that is likely fielding an offer from either washington or new jersey. washington can offer the coaching + gm positions + more $$$. new jersey can offer a team that was just in the nba finals. we can offer...um...a hard road just to get in the playoffs. bottom line, MacBeth: the west is pimp, and right now we're its b****...
I just can't believe that it is bout the money. I have several arguments, they are... Maurice Taylors' contract Kelvin Cato's contract Moochie Norris's contract Steve Francis's maximum contract Rudy T's $6,000,000 per year contract Matt Malone's extremely long contract Trading for Pippen and throwing away people we had to pay. People on hte "injured reserve" drawing a paycheck A waay overvalued contract ofered to Olajuwan Les has ponied up whenever he has been asked. I just can't believe he would gag now.
I don't understand the "easier road in the East" argument. Anybody who wants to win wants to win the NBA Championship, not a Conference Championship. As JVG said, the goal is to win it all. So what does it matter which conference you are in? You still have to be the best team. You think because the Nets are the "conference champ" and the Lakers aren't, people have more respect for the Nets than the Lakers?
The reason we've lost out to Detroit and Cleveland is because I sense that JVG has been our number one choice all along. In fact there has been talk of JVG coaching the Rockets for almost a year now. I also believe we would have him under contract if it had not been for his contract with New York lasting until July 1st.
the goal is also to keep your job, right? it's much easier to do that in the east right now. you're missing the point. you think coaches care about who "people have more respect for"? they care about their reputation, yes, but they care more about keeping their jobs. ok, let's take some examples: rick carlisle in detroit could have kept his job for as long as he wanted if he hadn't rubbed the owner (and some of his players) the wrong way. did they have a snowball's chance in hell of beating any western conference team? hell no. larry brown in philadelphia could have stayed as long as he wanted, as well. yet, he had absolutely no chance of beating any western conference team...but hey, they had good records and got to the finals before, right? jim o'brien in boston has absolutely no chance of even winning a game in the nba finals. but he still has a job in boston because the celts are "young and improving", which is total bs because the reality is that they are overrated 3 point chuckers. byron scott in new jersey won COY for letting jason kidd be the player/coach, basically. of couse, that can be said for any coach of jason kidd's. the dude is the modern day coach on the floor. that said, jason kidd had been doing that in the west...and losing in the 1st or 2nd round...for years. in the east he can elevate his team to the finals and make his coach look brilliant. hell, eddie jordan's the only real coach on the sidelines, anyway...
incorrect. Clutch has already confirmed that larry brown was choice number one. denial is more than a river in africa...
Disclaimer: I believe this entire episode is a negotiating ploy by Van Gundy because the Rockets cannot be THIS STUPID. However, if Im wrong, then........... The Rockets have screwed this up so bad in so many ways. It would be almost comical. 1. We do it the "right way". We have "no leader". Apparently Detroit had a leader. It was Larry Brown. 2. We switch gears. We do have a leader. He's here in Houston doing a dog-n-pony PR tour. Only one problem - he doesn't know if he wants to be here. Now what. Apparently, 2 strikes = Mike Dunleavy. Who else can it be. How embarrasing would it be to lose Brown, then say you will conduct no more interviews, lose Van Gundy, then conduct more interviews. Even if we wanted to interview Carlisle or some other coach at this point, we can't because we've already announced that there will be no other candidates. If Van Gundy turns us down, it'll be the only time in history where the #3 candidate has more leverage than the team. What does this mean? Dunleavy can pretty much ask for similiar amount of $$ as the other 2 candidates. The Rockets can either give it to him or he walks away and make the Rockets look like even bigger fools than they already are. So it basically comes down to: 1. Either sign Van Gundy or 2. Sign Mike Dunleavy for 5 years for $20 million. Where did we screw it up: 1. Not going hard after Brown 2. Announcing there will be no more interviews 3. Bringing Jeff van Gundy to Houston for a PR super tour begging him to accept the job in front of the entire media without having a clue what he's going to do. 4. Having to settle for Mike Dunleavy because of #2 and losing all negotiating leverage. Like I said, I know, I pray we sign Van Gundy because if not, it'll confirm my biggest fear - that Les Alexander and Carroll Dawson are the stupidest, dumbest people on this planet. Im completely confident we'll sign Van Gundy. I think.
Our front office is a circus and has been for quite some time. Rudy needs to be put up in an office somewhere in the new facility with a desk full of toys for him to play with and CD needs to be looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong gone. It is sad that these are the people with the job of molding potentially the single biggest player in terms of marleting in the history of the NBA.
I have to think it's the fallout from Rudy's contract. Something tells me that Les does some quick math in his head every time the topic of salary comes up. Larry Brown asks for, say, $8 mil, and Les thinks, "$8 mil + $6 mil = $14 mil I'd be paying to the head coach slot!" Even if Rudy's technically not still the head coach, he's certainly getting paid like one. That's got to be a factor.
Good point top five,...I think that is exactly the sceario. Unfortunately, we seem to be content with falling plans such as not getting plan A (i.e. Brown),...and now we seem to be losing momentum in achieving plan B...!?! Could it be Les is content to swallow plan C, D, E, etc. just to balance a budget in sync with the pay that he felt necessary to keep Rudy?... Sometimes you gotta feed the money pit right to stop feeding the money pit for the sake of feeding...That time starts especially now for the Rockets!!!
What happend was Clevland caught peoples eyes cause of LEBRON JAMES! Detroit dunno exactly maybe Larry just wanted a good team to see if he can make them better than they are (you know he is known as a fixer upper) and then....... I dunno!!
..to offer a very small point, I am not sure these Eastern guys should visit Houston in June. It was damn hot last week. I don't know if it matters to them, but it might be a factor for me if quality of life issues are being considered.
Ok it's probably a combination of what's alreay been said already. But we're all speculating based on what we believe. With this in mind, I want to state I'm with MacBeth and Verse in that I believe Clutch's version of what happened with Brown, and I think a lot of people's views are being based on whether they want the coach in question to be hired or not (I certainly do not mean everyone). But I still maintain this process has been ugly, and I agree with MacBeth that money is involved to a large extent. This is my tangent and it is just speculation... I think the way Rudy's situation came down might have changed the perception of this organization within the coaching fraternity because: 1) Despite the fact we've read stories about Rudy being disrespected in circles around the league, he was well-liked, won two championships, had been with the organization for decades, come down with cancer, and was basically terminated. Yes, we didn't make the playoffs for the 4th straight year, but we might have gotten in had Rudy been here (and not the distraction of him being gone). Its speculative. But I agree coaches want job security, and when other coaches league who had become ill, they were supported. 2) Rudy did face quite a challenge last year incorporating Yao into the offense. Yao physically was often man-handled, Steve and Cat both had trouble adjusting to Yao, and Yao's popularity far exceeded what they were seeing on the court. On top of that Steve and Cat were under greater national scrutiny than ever before because of Yao. The way Cato played last year (huh?) we could arguably have done better playing Yao less. But even if we'd won more games (and made the playoffs), how would a coach like Rudy think that would get us closer to a championship? Yao needed to play as much as was possible, and I think every "secure" coach in the league would agree with that. 3) Steve, as a point-guard - not as a player - presented even more serious doubts about the structure of the team. Before Yao was drafted our backcourt was the strength of the team. Last season suddenly Francis declares "he'd love to play the'2'" suddenly not caring heretofore he'd been declaring "I'm a point guard" (must have gone down great in Vancouver). So what about Cat? The other 1/2 of our supposed strength had hired a publicist in the off-season so that he could get stronger all-star consideration and finds out the world wants him to be 3rd banana on his team. Yao undeservedly starts the all-star game and some could say, and they have, it showed on the court. Coupled with the lack of progression by Griffin, some lustre has come off our immediate prospects (can you imagine what we'd being saying now had we not been "given" Yao?). 4) Since Rudy's gone, everyone in the NBA knows the next coach has to "get us" into the playoffs next year, and in the West, even if Yao improves every facet of his game, there is no guarantee. And you've got a previously "hands off" owner that has his eye more than ever on the bottom line and on his new coach and GM. I can see why the NBA coaching fraternity could be skittish, especially (and we don't know) if the "benjamain" issue involves a short-term deal (2 years) as opposed to a low-ball yearly salary. I'd said Rudy would be coaching this year because I didn't think Les could really afford to get rid of him, and I wasn't talking just about money. Even if Les was right (he may have been) it came at a price. People who dislike Brown didn't look at what I was looking at. I guess the guys who wanted Van Gundy all along really will draw their own conclusions about this process which the Dunleavy guys will dismiss as rubbish. But Les had over-estimated his players, and under-estimated what could happen last season. I think he still doesn't get it, and I think that has CD scrambling mentally and emotionally. Van Gundy was my third choice, but I hope like hell he accepts the job.
I don't know. If the guy's primary goal is to keep his job, rather than winning it all, then I don't want him. Besides, I don't think it's any easier to keep your job in the East than in the West. If you are doing a good job, people know, and they'll factor in the conference strength into your records. . . except, of course, if you are coaching in Houston and have a full bbs of whiny people pressuring the management to get rid of you.
It's all about the benjamins baby. Larry Brown wanted money. Clutch pretty much confirmed it to us. Washington is offering ownership and a big contract, KNOWING that money is the only thing we can't match. I don't think there's any drop off from Jeff Van Gundy to Mike Dunleavy. They have different styles, but in the end, they'll both be equally effective.
