I like Juan V's comment on this subject. Let me add this to it....if Tim Duncan were a Rocket, we would be just as excited as fans to watch him destroy an opponet. And everyone knows how much emotion TD shows on the court! ------------------ Behad Sergeant at Arms of the Clutch BBS
The irony is that the NBA sells itself on personality, and personalities. That's where its marketing genius came in, and where it seperates itself from the NFL or MLB. Whether its Magic vs. Larry or Kobe vs. Carter. And yet the NBA tries to censor the "celebrations", calling them taunting or what have you. The sport needs personality, it needs to let its players emote. There aren't enough purists out there to sell basketball solely on the game. So the rule is dumb. But it is the rule, and I don't want to see the home team lose by a point because Steve decided to hang on the rim or slap the backboard. ------------------ "Thirty-seven?" -Randall, Clerks www.clutchtown.com
What's important to me is my team winning and being professional. Showboating really doesn't fit into the equation. Why not let players grab their crotch after a dunk, how would that be? After all they're just having fun, right? Trash talking is different--you're not showing up the opponent when you do that. There's nothing wrong with guys high-fiving, etc. on the way back down the court or during a timeout--that's celebrating. Hanging on the rim, slapping the backboard with one hand and dunking the ball with the other (totally unnecessary), grabbing your crotch on a dunk (I've actually seen Shawn Kemp do this), staring down an opponent after a slam (I hate that), finger-wagging -- is all hot-dogging and showing up the opponent. It doesn't bother me to the point to where I won't watch the NBA, but I could definitely do without most of it. ------------------ "Why can't dip be a meal?" -David Puddy The Hunger Site
I would tell Steve to slap the backboard every damn time if I could. Also he hasn't been called "everytime" he does it. What slapping the backboard does is give him more confidence, pump up his teammates, and discourage his opponents.By the way, the "classiest" players dont always play, the BEST players do.Class has completely NOTHING to do with the game, and if you think somehow that Steve slapping the backboard reflects bad on houston or himself then you're crazy. ------------------
I feel that the type of emotion displayed by Steve Francis is what makes the game more exciting and emotional for the fans involved. Imagine Elies' shot without the kiss of death. It would still be memorable, yes, but the simple fact is that his gesture made it one of the most exciting moments a fan could have ever experienced. I remember plenty of times that I made the same exact gesture after having drained a three. Another moment I can't forget is Eddie Johnson's celebration after the shot he made against Utah. Simply amazing. Every time I hear the sound clip (I have it on my HD) I remember Eddie juming up and down, running the length of the court, showing the greatest amount of sheer joy that I have ever seen on a man's face. Dennis Bergkamp's celebration of the goal against Argentina also gives me a similar feeling. I can still see him running down the field, face buried in his hands, unable to handle the great importance of his feat. I love the emotion that players display on the court. Granted, you do have to draw the line somewhere. But, I would hate to see the league lose its excitement due to senseless rules. Tim Duncan is a great player, no doubt. I respect his play and his lack of emotion displayed. However, this does not mean that I look down on those who can't hold in their excitement. TheFreak and others, Sports is often about what you call "showboating". Why stop at grabbing the rim with one hand and dunking with the other? Why not outlaw the dunk? Why not limit the guys to simple layups? The dunk in itself is a form of showing off. The dunk contest highlights this. The best dunker is he who gives the greatest and most spectacular show. As SamCassell already mentioned, sport is made up of personalities and entertainment. It's not about being professional, it's about winning and putting on a show. I think different types of celebrations add a welcome flavor to the game. You probably disagree, but that still doesn't mean that it must be outlawed. I mean, where is the harm? True, we must place some sort of limit. Making gestures that promote a certain type of negative behaviour (such as soccer players imitating a machine gun when celebrating...I don't agree with that), for example. I do agree he must stop. Even if he does not agree, he must abide by the laws set by the NBA. The fact that he doesn't simply shows his lack of respect for the league. That is what I don't agree with. Slapping the backboard in itself I can live with. ------------------ Nederland 2002 Rocketman95 on board. Check out his latest game recaps.
I think that the rule is just rediculous and pointless. I also think that refs target certain players to call these techs on. I never see Kobe or Vince get called for Ts after their dunks. I'm sot saying that the refs are deliberately calling it on certain players, but they do seem to call it with more frequency when the Rockets come to town. Hanging on the rim I can understand, because the rim could potentially be damaged. But slapping the backboard? That does absolutely NOTHING wrong. Francis needs to learn to stop doing it though, because no matter how stupid the rule, it is still a rule. ------------------ "Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning how to put food on their family while being put to death."
This is senseless. These technical fouls for slapping the board is just plain stupid. You might as well ask the players to stop dunking. After all, a layup is worth the same right? NOT. There should be emotion after someone throws down a nasty one, it is human nature. I also don't think Steve was taunting a player or was looking at one. ------------------ The begining of www.steviefranchise.web.com
Ace, All of those examples you mentioned were GAME WINNING situations, extrodinary moments. Making a dunk in the 3rd quarter, and hanging on the rim, because it looks cool, does not even come close to qualifying. Emotion is good, but Al Davis said it best..."Just win baby" DaDakota ------------------ If Mankind evolved from Monkeys and Apes, then why are there still Monkeys and apes?
Tacoma - Class has nothing to do with the game? Are you old enough to have seen Dr. J play? He was pretty classy and his showmanship was not taunting by any means. There is a VERY fine line between demostrations of emotion and showboating. The showboating and end zone dance parties got so ridiculous in the NFL that I stopped watching 15 years ago. I hope the NBA keeps on top of this situation. Basketball is the ONLY professional sport I watch or care about. ------------------ GATER
Maybe this is also a matter of age,youngsters tend to like those type of things(And by that I mean ME) like high-fives or backboard slapping(Not crotch grabbing or things like that,which are actually offensive and I agree,classless) which I think do show emotion and improve the game,but either way,what I think we ALL agree on is that: -This is a stupid rule even if you like the action or not. -Steve has to stop doing this because it can cost us a game ------------------ President of the Wink fan club and treasurer of the Moochie Norris fan club!!
Regardless of whether or not you agree with the rule, it is the rule. The players need to understand that. Francis needs to understand that if he slaps the backboard he may be called for a technical and his dunk would be a net gain of 1 point instead of 2. If the players disagree with the rule they should work to get it changed. Until that happens they should abide by it. On another subject, there were at least 3 occasions during the Cavs game where the Rockets went for a spectacular play that wasn't there. On one, Moochie bypassed a layup in order to throw a lob to Francis that failed since Francis had to jump over someone just to get to the ball. It sure was "exciting" to see Francis jump real high, but I would have rather seen the 2 point layup. ------------------
Freak, Francis did not hang on the rim. He dunked the ball and slapped the glass on the way down. Besides, the refs did not call the tech on Francis for hanging on the rim, the tech was called for taunting. Sometimes I wonder if any of you folks who make comments like... He needs to show more class, I don't want him to turn into a Gary Payton class punk. ...have ever played ball before. I say that because if you have you would understand the emotion of basketball. Have you never lost a defensive man with a sweet move and thrown the ball down with a nasty dunk(or layup for the vertically challenged)? No? How about pump-faking a man into the air and then shooting a beautiful "j" that touches no rim? Imagine you're in front of an audience when you do these things. Now imagine you've had these things done to you and the other player is jawing at you all the way back down to your end of the court, do you mean to tell me that you are not going to say a word when you get a little payback. Basketball is not golf (though with some of the comments on this board I think that is what some of you want it to be). Basketball is in your face competition and as such there is going to be emotion. That is part of the entertainment value of the sport. To say that a player does not have class because he shows emotion is ridiculous and makes me think that some of you posters have personal issues with Steve. I'm not saying any names but his initials are DADAKOTA ------------------
Done that many times Od. Unfortunately, I touched no net as well. Plenty of air though! Very well said about emotion in the game. ------------------ Behad Sergeant at Arms of the Clutch BBS
"The irony is that the NBA sells itself on personality, and personalities. That's where its marketing genius came in, and where it seperates itself from the NFL or MLB. Whether its Magic vs. Larry or Kobe vs. Carter" Magic vs Larry was more the great Celtics teams vs the great Laker teams. ALso Larry vs magic started because they were the best 2 players on the best 2 teams. All these "punks" now that promote themselves over their teams are the reason the NBA is losing fans. I watch the NBA to watch a good game or good team, not to see Vince score 50 and lose. Personal hi-lites are for Sportscenter. Look at the original dream team. They had a team of champions (Larry, Magic, MJ) who talked smak and there was others on that team who played long enough to earn respect (Charles for example). Now look at the newest Olympic team (no way they deserve to be called a dream team). A bunch of American thugs who talked a mean game and barely won the gold. And yeah I would much rather watch a professional player (like a Duncan) who does his job and celebrates with his teammates, not by walking to center court and flexing or staring into a camera, than I would watch Vince jump from the foul line and dunk over 5 guys, run behing the basket (by himself), flex, a nd scream at the crowd. That just my opinion and I know the "punk" comment will rile some people but honestly there are too many opf these guys in the NBA.
Slapping the backboard has never been a big deal at all, you even see it in college where hardly any body talks trash. It's a joke for them to call that, plain and simple
ok, first of all the rule is not based on him slapping the backboard (as 100s of players smack the **** out of the board on layups), but rather for taunting the opponent. that said, it's ridiculous. if anything that francis does is offensive, it's his jackrabbit style of jumping up and screaming after a dunk. but you know what? i like it. i freakin' love it. and if you're gonna tell me a grown man making anywhere between 2 and 20 million per year can't take someone "doing that" to him...i'm gonna tell you to shut up. look. if you guys have played serious ball, and i know some of you have, you understand the emotion that goes into the game. Odiggidy: VERY WELL SAID! you know, even tim duncan shows some emotion on the court. i've seen him pump fists and scream after a dunk or two also. but he doesn't get called for it. vince carter, well, nuff said. dude flexes and stares constantly. shaq kicks his legs up to the ceiling so often it has been used as a logo. kobe gives this cocky look after a dunk or j which - IMO - is more offensive than any backboard slap could ever be. none of these guys get called for this ****. so don't tell me that the league is doing a league wide crack down on offensive play. in fact, what do they highlight on their commercials but people showboating??? not to be COACH SAMPSONish, but the league is full of a bunch of double talk. these guys enforce one set of rules against one team or player, but not another. (see dennis rodman, rasheed wallace, vince carter, kobe, vince, bird, magic, iverson, etc.). all these players play by a special set of rules (either negative or positive). so should steve stop doing it??? NO. you know why? because they'll stop calling it on him eventually. just like they stopped calling carrying on iverson. just like they stopped calling carrying on mj. just like they stopped calling carrying on kobe. just like they stopped calling travelling on hakeem. just like they stopped calling offensive fouls on shaq. just like they stopped calling taunting on vince. if it makes him have more confidence, i say keep doing it. how the hell can you guys compare that to kemp grabbing his crotch??? that's offensive to anyone watching. 'dem 'dere is fightin' words. what steve's doin is only pumping himself - and fans like me and odiggidy and others in here - up. you say it might cost us a game, huh? well i'm sure dreams penchant for travelling from here to nigeria on his famous dream shakes cost us a few, too. but he kept doing it. same goes for techs and bird/magic/mj (3 of the biggest **** talkers of all time). but it elevated their game. STOP BEING A STICK IN THE MUD! STICK IT TO THE OPPONENTS! ------------------ ISSEDOFF: [This message has been edited by verse (edited January 04, 2001).]
4chuckie, so only the two best players on the best teams can be marketed for their personality, and everyone else should just shut up and play? I guess you're including guys who've earned respect in the league by winning championships or being named to the top-50 list? Sir Charles is OK, but Payton can't talk trash? What about L8tner: he was on Dream Team I. Your history on the Dream Team concept is revisionary anyway. Who could forget Barkley throwing down that Angolan player and talking about it afterwards? It was better because it was new, and because the players were so great. The NBA needs personality, and those of you who would watch if every player shot bank shots and refused to dunk the ball - well you're outnumbered by the casual fans (not on this BBS) who want to be entertained. You think the WWF is doing so well because the wrestling is top notch? Combine good basketball with "attitude" and you've got the recipe for success in today's professional sports. ------------------ "Thirty-seven?" -Randall, Clerks www.clutchtown.com
Hath not a backboard eyes? Hath not a backboard hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions? If you prick it, does it not bleed? If you tickle it, does it not laugh? And if you b**** slap it, shall it not revenge?
